Celtics (6-6) at Cavaliers (7-5) Game #13 11/13/21

[liam]

Celtics play great over several games....crickets.

Celtics lose a close game after a bad 4th quarter  and suddenly all those guys that love tea and have lots of rolls on their body show up to go nuts.

So predictable.

Chrip, chrip, chrip....


The Crickets are always here....

[Mahk E Mahk]

tatum, the “elite” all-star: 8 FG, 2 AST, 4 REB, 36% FG, 12% 3P%, 6 TO, and zero defensive effort.

he’s never gonna be that guy.

Where were you the last 3 games with these takes?

three whole games?!?

he played lights-out against the mavs, shot 33% against the raptors, played well against the bucks, and tonight was another complete stinker in all regards. this perfectly demonstrates his problem. year five and he vacillates between great and liability from one game to the next. he’s an inconsistently good player; not great and he never will be.

and let’s not forget the two games prior to these four games:

magic: 14pts, 25% FG, 16% 3P%, 3 AST
heat: 10pts, 23% FG, 2 AST

so, in the last six games he’s had one great game, one good game, one ok game, and three stinkers.

five years in and it’s abundantly clear that tatum is a mentally soft, lazy, privileged, inconsistent, inefficient volume scorer. he’s not someone you build a championship team around. i realize this stirs heated emotions in folks, and i hate it too, but it’s the truth. the sooner brad realizes it, the better off the C’s will be.

Ehhh, weak argument. Those all star berths weren’t flukes and he was a snub for all-NBA last year. I get it: he’s not shown an MVP-level season. But he’s still been the most impactful player on the floor for this team for more than a few years now.

Chalking this one up to fan nonsense

yeah, stats are nonsense but votes cast by fans, players, and members of the media constitute astute arguments.

calling him “the most impactful player on the floor for this team for more than a few years” is the real nonsense and demonstrates emotional fan bias and not critical basketball analysis. you’re mistaking highly inefficient scoring for impact. he’s a nonexistent facilitator, an average rebounder, a lazy defender, a streaky shooter, a poor ball handler, demonstrates low basketball IQ, and he’s not remotely clutch or a leader. on many nights over the past five years, the most impactful player has been brown, smart, or horford.

i realize C’s fans don’t want to admit it but he’s clearly not that guy.

When they’re stats based on one fan’s lazy interpretations, then yep, I’ll take fan votes over that any day of the week. Also, fans don’t vote in the all star reserves (unless I missed this rule change somewhere).

And no, it has not been Smart. If you want to blow your horn over who is the king of inconsistency, I think Smart takes the cake over any other Celtic who got any type of consistent minutes in the past half decade. There’s a reason why he’s a polarizing player on these boards.

There’s a case to be made for Brown last year, although his team defense always leaves me hanging. And for all his individual scoring greatness, he doesn’t have the gravity or vision on offense that opens things up for players around him.

it’s very telling that all you ever offer is non-specific, dismissive criticism of opposing arguments but you never offer specific data in support of tatum. only lazily biased celtic’s fans think it’s an axiomatic and unassailable truth that tatum is elite or special. they’re also the first to make excuses for his continued poor play: new ball! olympic hangover! extra muscle! fewer calls! lol

[LilRip]

tatum, the “elite” all-star: 8 FG, 2 AST, 4 REB, 36% FG, 12% 3P%, 6 TO, and zero defensive effort.

he’s never gonna be that guy.

Where were you the last 3 games with these takes?

three whole games?!?

he played lights-out against the mavs, shot 33% against the raptors, played well against the bucks, and tonight was another complete stinker in all regards. this perfectly demonstrates his problem. year five and he vacillates between great and liability from one game to the next. he’s an inconsistently good player; not great and he never will be.

and let’s not forget the two games prior to these four games:

magic: 14pts, 25% FG, 16% 3P%, 3 AST
heat: 10pts, 23% FG, 2 AST

so, in the last six games he’s had one great game, one good game, one ok game, and three stinkers.

five years in and it’s abundantly clear that tatum is a mentally soft, lazy, privileged, inconsistent, inefficient volume scorer. he’s not someone you build a championship team around. i realize this stirs heated emotions in folks, and i hate it too, but it’s the truth. the sooner brad realizes it, the better off the C’s will be.

Ehhh, weak argument. Those all star berths weren’t flukes and he was a snub for all-NBA last year. I get it: he’s not shown an MVP-level season. But he’s still been the most impactful player on the floor for this team for more than a few years now.

Chalking this one up to fan nonsense

yeah, stats are nonsense but votes cast by fans, players, and members of the media constitute astute arguments.

calling him “the most impactful player on the floor for this team for more than a few years” is the real nonsense and demonstrates emotional fan bias and not critical basketball analysis. you’re mistaking highly inefficient scoring for impact. he’s a nonexistent facilitator, an average rebounder, a lazy defender, a streaky shooter, a poor ball handler, demonstrates low basketball IQ, and he’s not remotely clutch or a leader. on many nights over the past five years, the most impactful player has been brown, smart, or horford.

i realize C’s fans don’t want to admit it but he’s clearly not that guy.

When they’re stats based on one fan’s lazy interpretations, then yep, I’ll take fan votes over that any day of the week. Also, fans don’t vote in the all star reserves (unless I missed this rule change somewhere).

And no, it has not been Smart. If you want to blow your horn over who is the king of inconsistency, I think Smart takes the cake over any other Celtic who got any type of consistent minutes in the past half decade. There’s a reason why he’s a polarizing player on these boards.

There’s a case to be made for Brown last year, although his team defense always leaves me hanging. And for all his individual scoring greatness, he doesn’t have the gravity or vision on offense that opens things up for players around him.

it’s very telling that all you ever offer is non-specific, dismissive criticism of opposing arguments but you never offer specific data in support of tatum. only lazily biased celtic’s fans think it’s an axiomatic and unassailable truth that tatum is elite or special. they’re also the first to make excuses for his continued poor play: new ball! olympic hangover! extra muscle! fewer calls! lol

Because it’s already been covered extensively on this board and I don’t feel the need to put in much more effort to disprove you. Jumping to  this conclusion to push your agenda using only 12 games as basis (1 good game, 1 ok game, etc) to dismiss Tatum is already a reach, especially after we’ve seen how him perform in prior years. It’s especially weird when you double down on your claims by saying Smart is more (positively) impactful.

[Birdman]

Beyond me that how NBA teams can blow a 15+ leads

[slamtheking]

Celtics play great over several games....crickets.

Celtics lose a close game after a bad 4th quarter  and suddenly all those guys that love tea and have lots of rolls on their body show up to go nuts.

So predictable.

wins breed contentment -- peace and joy throughout Celtics land.  losses, especially losses that should have been wins, breed discontent that pours out here. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

1. They played not to lose, like they were superstars that should be handed the game. Cavs played hard through the end.
2. Our offense does not currently generate good looks on a consistent basis. It may be that we are awaiting Tatum's next leap as an elite shot creator, and then will funnel everything through him. So far, it's not there. We are hunting mismatches, but we aren't moving the ball for good looks. Most of our guys need the defense to be reacting in order to be effective, but the defense is never forced to react with Tatum isos. I desperately wish I could watch the Warriors offense in Celtic uniform each night. Even when Curry and/or Green is out of the game, the ball is popping, cuts are being made, and guys are getting good looks.
3. I don't mind Ime giving the bench an eextended chance in the 3rd. You can do that on a cold day in November as a teaching opportunity. Season is long and your bench has to be developed. But I hope Ime called the bench out and the starters out after the game. I hope he called out the starters inability to execute down the stretch, and I hope he called out the bench's inability to generate good shots without the starters. Those guys have to do better. I will say that Ime's offensive scheme doesn't work that well when there isn't a guy on the court who can break down his man (maybe more offensive flow and swinging the ball side to side?), but those bench guys have to hold themselves accountable for letting the lead slip away. Pritchard had his chance last night and failed miserably.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Can I say how much I hate hunting mismatches as one of your primary offensive principles, unless you have a guy who can take advantage of mismatches?

Most teams would rather that your ball movement stops and you try to beat a man one-on-one. That is especially true if you don't have a superstar scorer that can break your defense. Schroeder is scoring so much because teams are content to switch out a big on him. They prefer their chances with Schroeder going off than with the whole team having great movement.

In the playoffs, mismatches are key, but why in the world can't we get the ball popping? Why does every Celtic have to size his defender up when he catches the ball and make a jab step before he makes a decision?

Catch, shoot/drive/pass, cut, catch. Get moving! Stop being so tentative.

I love love love the defense lately, but the offense is very frustrating to watch.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Can I say how much I hate hunting mismatches as one of your primary offensive principles, unless you have a guy who can take advantage of mismatches?

Most teams would rather that your ball movement stops and you try to beat a man one-on-one. That is especially true if you don't have a superstar scorer that can break your defense. Schroeder is scoring so much because teams are content to switch out a big on him. They prefer their chances with Schroeder going off than with the whole team having great movement.

In the playoffs, mismatches are key, but why in the world can't we get the ball popping? Why does every Celtic have to size his defender up when he catches the ball and make a jab step before he makes a decision?

Catch, shoot/drive/pass, cut, catch. Get moving! Stop being so tentative.

I love love love the defense lately, but the offense is very frustrating to watch.

It's basic principles in any strategy game. There is a reason those options are constantly there for you. Your opponent wants you to do that thing. That should be your first hint that you should not do that thing, but rather try to do the thing the opponent least wants you to do.

[SHAQATTACK]

ok I missed the game tonight.  looks like we had a lead going into the 4th again.
anyone want to give me a short summary?  just blew it again at the end?

Cavs got up off the floor from a 3 quarter beat down and knocked the Celtics out of the ring .

[Phantom255x]

It's not really the loss that upsets me, but the fashion they lost in. Seriously, you have a 19-point lead and despite how ugly it's been for both sides you're still pretty much cruising. And then they give up a 14-0 run and basically get wrecked in the 4th quarter.

I know it's the 2nd game of a back-to-back and we're missing Jaylen, but I'm still not sold on the urgency of this team. Too many times they just become nonchalant for large stretches late in games and frankly, that includes Tatum and he's a big part of it.

I'll admit, I've been harsh on Smart this season but recently he's picked up his play and he's doing a lot for the team (even if it's not from scoring, but the other things). Love to see it!

I mean Cleveland's been good so far, but if we're having trouble with teams like Cleveland this season then I don't really think much is going to change. We'll probably be at best a 5-6 seed, but more likely in the "play-in tournament range" and that's disappointing.

[Damiano Brancopreto]

Same story saw vs Chicago...and additionally it seems that in a way or another we manage to lead the games to an almost tied situation in the last minute and then it is likely we'll find a way to lose. We don't have a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing game winner in the roster, so we should play smarter and at least shoot a good  shot after screening, running without the ball etc. Instead no: ball to someone (that was Tatum before, now it changes) and play one-on-one that ends in a very difficult shot. I am frustrated. This team has a mental problem and the coach isn't helpful.

[Damiano Brancopreto]

Can I say how much I hate hunting mismatches as one of your primary offensive principles, unless you have a guy who can take advantage of mismatches?

Most teams would rather that your ball movement stops and you try to beat a man one-on-one. That is especially true if you don't have a superstar scorer that can break your defense. Schroeder is scoring so much because teams are content to switch out a big on him. They prefer their chances with Schroeder going off than with the whole team having great movement.

In the playoffs, mismatches are key, but why in the world can't we get the ball popping? Why does every Celtic have to size his defender up when he catches the ball and make a jab step before he makes a decision?

Catch, shoot/drive/pass, cut, catch. Get moving! Stop being so tentative.

I love love love the defense lately, but the offense is very frustrating to watch.

Agree 100%