I need to relax and wait for the 20 game rule!

[liam]

I agree, and I need to do the same, though I think it's also true that they need to put forth better effort. Shouldn't be losing to the Wizards at home, especially when their best player goes 7-for-25/0-for-6.

I think that there are things you can judge.  Effort is one of them.  Roster construction is probably another one that you can at least talk about early, with the recognition that things can change.  And, I think management decisions can be discussed.  Extending Josh Richardson.  Whether it made sense to salary dump Kemba in a season we're unlikely to be contenders.  Whether we're missing certain elements.

That lost draft pick is banging around inside my head these last few days. A wasted future asset / rotation player for a short term band aid in Horford.

Alperen Şengün who I also really liked.

Alllllllllllperen!!!!

That's not relaxed!!!

[W8ting2McHale]

I need to relax a little and give the coach and the team more of a chance.  I had my expectations too high to strart the season. It was always going to be a long year. I foolishly expected the Celtics and Coach Ime to hit the ground running against a softer NBA schedule. I need to wait until at least game 20-30 in to see how this team can come together.

Go Celtics.

I think 5 games is much too small a sample size to make a judgement about this team. A lot of people like to look at teams on paper and form expectations based off that evaluation and end up disappointed. Others try to evaluate based on previous seasons, but this team isn’t last year’s team. There is a new coach and 3-5 players with roles this year that they didn’t have last year. The Lakers aren’t last year’s Lakers. The Heat aren’t last year’s Heat.

I’m not sure that I would consider a schedule “soft” when 10 out of the first 15 games are played on the road. The home team wins 60-62% of the time in the NBA. If we are 8-7 after 15 games we will be an above average team.

As noted; the Lakers and Nets are also 2-3 after 5 games and the Suns are currently 1-3. They hope to join the 2-3 group!

Meanwhile, some of the teams written off before the season started; like Chicago, Cleveland, Washington and Charlotte, are off to good starts.

Maybe all of those teams are the real deal and the Celtics are  a lottery team, but it’s too soon to tell. Last year isn’t this year and last year’s team isn’t this team, no matter what some will tell you.

[Celtics4ever]

I agree they need time and deserve time

But anyone who doesn't see the same flaws from last year is in denial.

[Surferdad]

I agree, and I need to do the same, though I think it's also true that they need to put forth better effort. Shouldn't be losing to the Wizards at home, especially when their best player goes 7-for-25/0-for-6.

I think that there are things you can judge.  Effort is one of them.  Roster construction is probably another one that you can at least talk about early, with the recognition that things can change.  And, I think management decisions can be discussed.  Extending Josh Richardson.  Whether it made sense to salary dump Kemba in a season we're unlikely to be contenders.  Whether we're missing certain elements.

You can opine but can you really judge?  After 5 games?  Look at the Red Sox.  After the trade deadline, and the slump that followed, the GM was an idiot, horrible.  The owners were cheap, didn't care about winning, blah blah...  Then they beat the Yankees and the Rays and now Bloom is a lot smarter.  The same is true for the Celtics.  You can't judge the Richardson acquisition, for example, in full yet.  You can't really even assess roster construction as players are still settling into roles.

As to effort, that is a different issue.  If effort was bad in a game, that is pretty much it.  The next game could be totally different.  I guess it is fair to judge effort game to game.

We have the same record as the Lakers and the Nets and are only 1 game behind the Bucks.  These early season symptoms may be foretelling real issues or they may just be early season abnormalities.  There is no way to know after 5 games.  I like our team.  I think the ultimate weakness of the team is our bigs but so far, Horford, RWill, and even Grant have played well.  But it is only 5 games in that regard too (only 3 for Horford).

I don't disagree that it's too early to judge this team overall, but strongly agree with Roy that effort (or lack of it) is an obvious thing to be concerned about.

I had no illusions about this team being even as high as top-4 in the East.  Brand-new inexperienced head coach, new faces, an aging Horford, a gimpy Timelord, etc.  Did anyone really think this was THE year for this team?  It's a transition year.  Let's have fun seeing who emerges.  Resigning Schroder at what he's worth is unlikely without other moves to afford him, but I'm open to that.

[timpiker]

I've seen enough.

[Who]

I wasn't worried about the effort after the double overtime game because those sort of let downs happen fairly frequently in the NBA but the (lack of) effort since then has been disturbing.

They do not look ready to play. Ready to compete. It is like they are still in pre-season and are warming up for the real league to begin.

[Neurotic Guy]

Like others I’m disappointed at the start, but I can’t give up on a season this early.  We waited for the 20-21 C’s to find their identity and gel - and they didn’t.  That doesn’t mean this Celtics iteration won’t.  I wouldn’t bet on the C’s turning it around and becoming a contender, but certainly not giving up.  Roster is still interesting and moves can still be made.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Like others I’m disappointed at the start, but I can’t give up on a season this early.  We waited for the 20-21 C’s to find their identity and gel - and they didn’t.  That doesn’t mean this Celtics iteration won’t.  I wouldn’t bet on the C’s turning it around and becoming a contender, but certainly not giving up.  Roster is still interesting and moves can still be made.

Not picking on you, NG, but your comment just prompted my thinking: When are the Celtics supposed to become contenders? And I mean that seriously. Like, last season was supposed to be a lot better than it was, and that just never materialized, so some people started saying, "This is a bridge year; just wait until next season!" And now we already have people saying that this season is not about contention, they didn't even expect the Cs to crack the top 4 in the East this year, etc. ... so I'm just a bit flummoxed as to the predicted/expected timeline.

I understand that even the best players sometimes don't even reach the NBA Finals until their sixth, seventh, eighth year, so by that measure the Cs w/Tatum and Brown still have plenty of time. On the other hand, the Cs made the East finals three times in a four-year stretch not long ago, so expectations have been understandably raised.

I don't know, maybe I'm just impatient, but Danny's "fleecing of the Nets" was nine years ago, and yes, Boston has two rising stars who came from that haul, but to still be talking about "bridge years" (plural) this far along is a bit discouraging.

[Atzar]

Like others I’m disappointed at the start, but I can’t give up on a season this early.  We waited for the 20-21 C’s to find their identity and gel - and they didn’t.  That doesn’t mean this Celtics iteration won’t.  I wouldn’t bet on the C’s turning it around and becoming a contender, but certainly not giving up.  Roster is still interesting and moves can still be made.

Not picking on you, NG, but your comment just prompted my thinking: When are the Celtics supposed to become contenders? And I mean that seriously. Like, last season was supposed to be a lot better than it was, and that just never materialized, so some people started saying, "This is a bridge year; just wait until next season!" And now we already have people saying that this season is not about contention, they didn't even expect the Cs to crack the top 4 in the East this year, etc. ... so I'm just a bit flummoxed as to the predicted/expected timeline.

I understand that even the best players sometimes don't even reach the NBA Finals until their sixth, seventh, eighth year, so by that measure the Cs w/Tatum and Brown still have plenty of time. On the other hand, the Cs made the East finals three times in a four-year stretch not long ago, so expectations have been understandably raised.

I don't know, maybe I'm just impatient, but Danny's "fleecing of the Nets" was nine years ago, and yes, Boston has two rising stars who came from that haul, but to still be talking about "bridge years" (plural) this far along is a bit discouraging.

The honest truth is that we were supposed to be contenders a few years ago and our shot fizzled.  The Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford team had all of the pieces.  And I think the Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum team had enough, too.  We had a three year window where we could have won a title, had things gone differently.  Instead, injuries killed the first and third years and a chemistry implosion killed the second. 

We're trying to figure it out with what we have left in the wake of all of that, and there's no timetable for it.  Tatum and Brown are a good place to start (though not a sure thing), but the path forward from here has a lot more questions than answers at this point. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Like others I’m disappointed at the start, but I can’t give up on a season this early.  We waited for the 20-21 C’s to find their identity and gel - and they didn’t.  That doesn’t mean this Celtics iteration won’t.  I wouldn’t bet on the C’s turning it around and becoming a contender, but certainly not giving up.  Roster is still interesting and moves can still be made.

Not picking on you, NG, but your comment just prompted my thinking: When are the Celtics supposed to become contenders? And I mean that seriously. Like, last season was supposed to be a lot better than it was, and that just never materialized, so some people started saying, "This is a bridge year; just wait until next season!" And now we already have people saying that this season is not about contention, they didn't even expect the Cs to crack the top 4 in the East this year, etc. ... so I'm just a bit flummoxed as to the predicted/expected timeline.

I understand that even the best players sometimes don't even reach the NBA Finals until their sixth, seventh, eighth year, so by that measure the Cs w/Tatum and Brown still have plenty of time. On the other hand, the Cs made the East finals three times in a four-year stretch not long ago, so expectations have been understandably raised.

I don't know, maybe I'm just impatient, but Danny's "fleecing of the Nets" was nine years ago, and yes, Boston has two rising stars who came from that haul, but to still be talking about "bridge years" (plural) this far along is a bit discouraging.

The honest truth is that we were supposed to be contenders a few years ago and our shot fizzled.  The Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford team had all of the pieces.  And I think the Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum team had enough, too.  We had a three year window where we could have won a title, had things gone differently.  Instead, injuries killed the first and third years and a chemistry implosion killed the second. 

We're trying to figure it out with what we have left in the wake of all of that, and there's no timetable for it.  Tatum and Brown are a good place to start (though not a sure thing), but the path forward from here has a lot more questions than answers at this point.

Solid points. As great as the Nets haul was/is, nearly every major decision since then (Kyrie, Hayward, Kemba) has ended up a disaster.

[Moranis]

Like others I’m disappointed at the start, but I can’t give up on a season this early.  We waited for the 20-21 C’s to find their identity and gel - and they didn’t.  That doesn’t mean this Celtics iteration won’t.  I wouldn’t bet on the C’s turning it around and becoming a contender, but certainly not giving up.  Roster is still interesting and moves can still be made.

Not picking on you, NG, but your comment just prompted my thinking: When are the Celtics supposed to become contenders? And I mean that seriously. Like, last season was supposed to be a lot better than it was, and that just never materialized, so some people started saying, "This is a bridge year; just wait until next season!" And now we already have people saying that this season is not about contention, they didn't even expect the Cs to crack the top 4 in the East this year, etc. ... so I'm just a bit flummoxed as to the predicted/expected timeline.

I understand that even the best players sometimes don't even reach the NBA Finals until their sixth, seventh, eighth year, so by that measure the Cs w/Tatum and Brown still have plenty of time. On the other hand, the Cs made the East finals three times in a four-year stretch not long ago, so expectations have been understandably raised.

I don't know, maybe I'm just impatient, but Danny's "fleecing of the Nets" was nine years ago, and yes, Boston has two rising stars who came from that haul, but to still be talking about "bridge years" (plural) this far along is a bit discouraging.

The honest truth is that we were supposed to be contenders a few years ago and our shot fizzled.  The Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford team had all of the pieces.  And I think the Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum team had enough, too.  We had a three year window where we could have won a title, had things gone differently.  Instead, injuries killed the first and third years and a chemistry implosion killed the second. 

We're trying to figure it out with what we have left in the wake of all of that, and there's no timetable for it.  Tatum and Brown are a good place to start (though not a sure thing), but the path forward from here has a lot more questions than answers at this point.

Solid points. As great as the Nets haul was/is, nearly every major decision since then (Kyrie, Hayward, Kemba) has ended up a disaster.

because Ainge refused to truly commit to a path.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Anyone ever consider the fact that that last Isaiah Thomas season and the Olynyk game against the Wizards was the best Celtic team since the big three were traded? I don't think anyone expected that to happen. Not the most talented, but definitely the best team.

I think we all expected to keep building on that culture, but I don't think anyone expected what would happen. If only we could put fill this team with the same mindset as that team, we'd have a champion. But that kind of attitude was born through adversity and pride. It takes time.

[Mahk E Mahk]

it’s possible we’re learning to appreciate how great brad was as a coach. there were theories that brad excelled with young, underdog squads but couldn’t lead more established teams. i think we might be discovering that the current core is a group of high-talent, high-potential players that are extremely difficult to coach/lead, and consistent effort and focus is a major limiting factor that the core refuses to hear. this also could have been a contributing factor in brad’s decision to leave the bench.

btw, this is not a criticism of ime or a comparison of the two coaches. ime’s a rookie and it will naturally take time for him to figure things out.

[Atzar]

because Ainge refused to truly commit to a path.

IMO that's only really true of the Kemba teams.  In terms of talent and fit, the Kyrie teams should have worked as they were constructed.  But Hayward snapped his foot off, Kyrie had an injury of his own and then flaked, and Horford left because Philly made a stupid decision.  Still wonder if they signed Horford more to hurt us than to help themselves. 

Regarding the last two seasons, though, I agree with you.  He never seemed willing to take his shot with that Kemba/Hayward duo around, but certain deals like flipping the Bane pick just to offload Kanter suggested that he wasn't committed to building for the future either.  That 2020 offseason is probably his worst in his entire tenure as GM of the Celtics. 

[Mahk E Mahk]

because Ainge refused to truly commit to a path.

IMO that's only really true of the Kemba teams.  In terms of talent and fit, the Kyrie teams should have worked as they were constructed.  But Hayward snapped his foot off, Kyrie had an injury of his own and then flaked, and Horford left because Philly made a stupid decision.  Still wonder if they signed Horford more to hurt us than to help themselves. 

Regarding the last two seasons, though, I agree with you.  He never seemed willing to take his shot with that Kemba/Hayward duo around, but certain deals like flipping the Bane pick just to offload Kanter suggested that he wasn't committed to building for the future either.  That 2020 offseason is probably his worst in his entire tenure as GM of the Celtics.

good take, atzar. tp

danny’s work to construct the PP, rondo, KG, ray team was done with proactive, thoughtful purpose like an architect, and was far more than disjointed talent grabs. danny seemed to take a similar approach in constructing the kyrie, jb, jt, hayward, al team, which would have been special for years if hayward’s injury didn’t derail it mere minutes into its existence.

the post kyrie deals (e.g. kemba, kanter/bane) did seem a bit panicky after danny’s second contender-caliber team self-destructed so quickly. president/gm is an incredibly difficult job in which so many variables, some controllable/some not, must fall perfectly into place. danny didn’t seem to have the same vision post-kyrie and did start to flail a bit. danny was masterful for so long but it must be nigh impossible to catch lightening in a bottle repeatedly.