Author Topic: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?  (Read 15444 times)

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Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2021, 10:37:54 PM »

Offline Mahk E Mahk

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I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.
American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.
Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

The political scientists and economists among us would know better than me, but I think what you described sounds more to me like communism than capitalism.  Total government control of the economic system without private ownership and without encouragement of private enterprise.  Maybe Xi runs a tight ship with his company of a billion workers (?), but it's not capitalism.
That doesn't accurately describe the Chinese economy. It's become a lot more open in recent decades, definitely not "total government control".

I do chuckle at China's economy being labelled "not capitalistic" because it profits off of slave labour. That is almost inherent in any newly capitalistic state.

glad you’re amused but you’re making an erroneous and lazy correlation, as slavery was a feature in many places and times around the globe, in capitalistic and non-capitalistic economies. when slavery originates, it is typically due to a totalitarian or imperial nation bringing slavery into existence from war and conquest. The US was no different. In fact, slavery was kept alive by cultural considerations, rather than economic and capitalistic considerations in the economy. essentially, what had reduced the use of slavery within the 19th century was not legislation such as the atlantic trade ban of 1808, but the culture of capitalist societies.

slavery and capitalism are completely incompatible in nearly every way, and specifically, slavery cannot be associated with capitalism because capitalism has many traits which obstruct the laws of slavery (and vice versa). one example is the accumulation of capital via the means of savings, which in turn is the engine toward productivity growth. the productivity growth results in increased efficiencies of resources, the diversification of labor, the increase of wages, increase in technological outputs, and the general wellbeing of the labor force and economy, which in turn, continues such a cycle in a sustainable and voluntary way.

slavery does not accumulate capital (other than investment returns, but no savings are acquired), which in turn cannot accumulate and introduce new productive techniques or technologies. this leads to efficiency reductions, and a lack of labor diversity, which altogether cannot advance technological output, wages, and the general wellbeing of the labor force of the slave economy, hence why capitalist societies actually reduce the amount of slave use over time. not surprisingly, the US experienced consistent pre-civil war declines in slave rates as the economy grew.

as the fledgling US economy expanded, the workforce expanded due to the need of more productive, skilled labor rather than slave labor, as that’s what’s needed for a growing, progressing, capitalistic economy.
You realise many western companies profit of slave labour too, right?

You’re out of your element on this one, but proceed if you must.
I don't care. It is lazy to imply China profits off of slave labour whereas the capitalist west does not.

you’re the one being intellectually lazy. no one stated that the capitalist west does not profit from slavery. in your previous post you made the claim that slave labor “is almost inherent in any newly capitalistic state.” this is patently false and was the claim i was refuting in my post.
What capitalistic state, newly so or not, doesn't or hasn't profited from slave labour?

postbellum, post-emancipation US.

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2021, 12:08:16 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.
American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.
Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

The political scientists and economists among us would know better than me, but I think what you described sounds more to me like communism than capitalism.  Total government control of the economic system without private ownership and without encouragement of private enterprise.  Maybe Xi runs a tight ship with his company of a billion workers (?), but it's not capitalism.
That doesn't accurately describe the Chinese economy. It's become a lot more open in recent decades, definitely not "total government control".

I do chuckle at China's economy being labelled "not capitalistic" because it profits off of slave labour. That is almost inherent in any newly capitalistic state.

glad you’re amused but you’re making an erroneous and lazy correlation, as slavery was a feature in many places and times around the globe, in capitalistic and non-capitalistic economies. when slavery originates, it is typically due to a totalitarian or imperial nation bringing slavery into existence from war and conquest. The US was no different. In fact, slavery was kept alive by cultural considerations, rather than economic and capitalistic considerations in the economy. essentially, what had reduced the use of slavery within the 19th century was not legislation such as the atlantic trade ban of 1808, but the culture of capitalist societies.

slavery and capitalism are completely incompatible in nearly every way, and specifically, slavery cannot be associated with capitalism because capitalism has many traits which obstruct the laws of slavery (and vice versa). one example is the accumulation of capital via the means of savings, which in turn is the engine toward productivity growth. the productivity growth results in increased efficiencies of resources, the diversification of labor, the increase of wages, increase in technological outputs, and the general wellbeing of the labor force and economy, which in turn, continues such a cycle in a sustainable and voluntary way.

slavery does not accumulate capital (other than investment returns, but no savings are acquired), which in turn cannot accumulate and introduce new productive techniques or technologies. this leads to efficiency reductions, and a lack of labor diversity, which altogether cannot advance technological output, wages, and the general wellbeing of the labor force of the slave economy, hence why capitalist societies actually reduce the amount of slave use over time. not surprisingly, the US experienced consistent pre-civil war declines in slave rates as the economy grew.

as the fledgling US economy expanded, the workforce expanded due to the need of more productive, skilled labor rather than slave labor, as that’s what’s needed for a growing, progressing, capitalistic economy.
You realise many western companies profit of slave labour too, right?

You’re out of your element on this one, but proceed if you must.
I don't care. It is lazy to imply China profits off of slave labour whereas the capitalist west does not.

you’re the one being intellectually lazy. no one stated that the capitalist west does not profit from slavery. in your previous post you made the claim that slave labor “is almost inherent in any newly capitalistic state.” this is patently false and was the claim i was refuting in my post.
What capitalistic state, newly so or not, doesn't or hasn't profited from slave labour?

postbellum, post-emancipation US.
Then I think you're using a very antiquated definition of slavery, or only looking at legal slavery.
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2021, 12:24:54 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

We did have someone who was standing up to China.
Joe Biden sure won't do it.

God Bless Enes Kanter.
Who was it that just said the US will defend Taiwan if China attacks?

Is that not explicitly "standing up to China"?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2021, 01:07:20 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

We did have someone who was standing up to China.
Joe Biden sure won't do it.

God Bless Enes Kanter.
Who was it that just said the US will defend Taiwan if China attacks?

Is that not explicitly "standing up to China"?
Yeah, but our current President didn't write a love letter to Xi Jinping telling him how much he admired him. That's really how you get tough on China.

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2021, 01:22:44 AM »

Offline Mahk E Mahk

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I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.
American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.
Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

The political scientists and economists among us would know better than me, but I think what you described sounds more to me like communism than capitalism.  Total government control of the economic system without private ownership and without encouragement of private enterprise.  Maybe Xi runs a tight ship with his company of a billion workers (?), but it's not capitalism.
That doesn't accurately describe the Chinese economy. It's become a lot more open in recent decades, definitely not "total government control".

I do chuckle at China's economy being labelled "not capitalistic" because it profits off of slave labour. That is almost inherent in any newly capitalistic state.

glad you’re amused but you’re making an erroneous and lazy correlation, as slavery was a feature in many places and times around the globe, in capitalistic and non-capitalistic economies. when slavery originates, it is typically due to a totalitarian or imperial nation bringing slavery into existence from war and conquest. The US was no different. In fact, slavery was kept alive by cultural considerations, rather than economic and capitalistic considerations in the economy. essentially, what had reduced the use of slavery within the 19th century was not legislation such as the atlantic trade ban of 1808, but the culture of capitalist societies.

slavery and capitalism are completely incompatible in nearly every way, and specifically, slavery cannot be associated with capitalism because capitalism has many traits which obstruct the laws of slavery (and vice versa). one example is the accumulation of capital via the means of savings, which in turn is the engine toward productivity growth. the productivity growth results in increased efficiencies of resources, the diversification of labor, the increase of wages, increase in technological outputs, and the general wellbeing of the labor force and economy, which in turn, continues such a cycle in a sustainable and voluntary way.

slavery does not accumulate capital (other than investment returns, but no savings are acquired), which in turn cannot accumulate and introduce new productive techniques or technologies. this leads to efficiency reductions, and a lack of labor diversity, which altogether cannot advance technological output, wages, and the general wellbeing of the labor force of the slave economy, hence why capitalist societies actually reduce the amount of slave use over time. not surprisingly, the US experienced consistent pre-civil war declines in slave rates as the economy grew.

as the fledgling US economy expanded, the workforce expanded due to the need of more productive, skilled labor rather than slave labor, as that’s what’s needed for a growing, progressing, capitalistic economy.
You realise many western companies profit of slave labour too, right?

You’re out of your element on this one, but proceed if you must.
I don't care. It is lazy to imply China profits off of slave labour whereas the capitalist west does not.

you’re the one being intellectually lazy. no one stated that the capitalist west does not profit from slavery. in your previous post you made the claim that slave labor “is almost inherent in any newly capitalistic state.” this is patently false and was the claim i was refuting in my post.
What capitalistic state, newly so or not, doesn't or hasn't profited from slave labour?

postbellum, post-emancipation US.
Then I think you're using a very antiquated definition of slavery, or only looking at legal slavery.

good grief. i’ll save you the effort of moving the goalposts again and bow out.

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2021, 01:43:05 AM »

Offline Mahk E Mahk

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I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

We did have someone who was standing up to China.
Joe Biden sure won't do it.

God Bless Enes Kanter.
Who was it that just said the US will defend Taiwan if China attacks?

Is that not explicitly "standing up to China"?

this administration does conflate words with violence but i bet xi isn't intimidated. maybe joe will send hunter as an emissary!

will it be easier or more difficult to “stand up to china” after milley calls to warn them?

will defending taiwan go as well as evacuating afghanistan? maybe the additional critical race theory training the military has recently received will improve performance?

no one believes anything joe says, and no one is afraid of bumbling joe and his woke military.

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2021, 01:53:02 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

We did have someone who was standing up to China.
Joe Biden sure won't do it.

God Bless Enes Kanter.
Who was it that just said the US will defend Taiwan if China attacks?

Is that not explicitly "standing up to China"?

this administration does conflate words with violence but i bet xi isn't intimidated. maybe joe will send hunter as an emissary!

will it be easier or more difficult to “stand up to china” after milley calls to warn them?

will defending taiwan go as well as evacuating afghanistan? maybe the additional critical race theory training the military has recently received will improve performance?

no one believes anything joe says, and no one is afraid of bumbling joe and his woke military.
What about recent military operations abandoning Afghan people is "woke"?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2021, 11:57:36 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
During an interview on CNN, Kanter revealed that two unnamed NBA officials borderline begged him to take off his Free Tibet shoes prior to a game and later implied he might be banned for the move. The Celtics player asked if he was breaking any rules, and the officials admitted he was not. He added the officials later apologized.

Very interesting interview:

Video


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2021, 02:01:22 PM »

Offline footey

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My daughter and I were interviewed for some blog news reporter in front of the Capital One Center prior to the Wiz game in DC, and gave our full support for Kanter!!  Don't know if it made it online.

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2021, 02:14:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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LOL at yall bashing China on your made in China computers.

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2021, 02:52:46 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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LOL at yall bashing China on your made in China computers.

I find it quite rich that Kanter was protesting China’s treatment of Tibet, with what looked like Chinese made shoes.

Kanter also forgets that a large portion of his (continued) NBA career earnings come from Nike, NBA clothing deal (Chinese made), and the tv rights income from Chinese viewership.

If he was truely against the CCP, he would no longer be taking their money, retire as a player and devote his time to politics and charitable causes.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 02:58:57 PM by Ed Monix »
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Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2021, 03:15:30 PM »

Offline Amonkey

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LOL at yall bashing China on your made in China computers.

I find it quite rich that Kanter was protesting China’s treatment of Tibet, with what looked like Chinese made shoes.

Kanter also forgets that a large portion of his (continued) NBA career earnings come from Nike, NBA clothing deal (Chinese made), and the tv rights income from Chinese viewership.

If he was truely against the CCP, he would no longer be taking their money, retire as a player and devote his time to politics and charitable causes.

I don't think that is how things works. Maybe in a society where everything is black and white with no gray areas, but in reality people can still advocate for a better society and speak out on perceived wrong without having to compromise their life savings. If that was the case, the whole society would become activists and the world wouldn't turn.

See global climate and its hipocrisy. I have seen people complaining about world leaders taking jets for the climate summit, and they are correct that it is hypocritic to use all that power for a climate summit, but it doesn't change the fact that these world leaders are setting the standard for how we move forward and the blueprint they create for those days makes no difference for the blueprint on the steps we take in the future to prevent climate change.
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Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2021, 03:20:38 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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LOL at yall bashing China on your made in China computers.

I find it quite rich that Kanter was protesting China’s treatment of Tibet, with what looked like Chinese made shoes.

Kanter also forgets that a large portion of his (continued) NBA career earnings come from Nike, NBA clothing deal (Chinese made), and the tv rights income from Chinese viewership.

If he was truely against the CCP, he would no longer be taking their money, retire as a player and devote his time to politics and charitable causes.


So give up the platform that gets other to pay attention and talk about it?

Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2021, 03:31:24 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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LOL at yall bashing China on your made in China computers.

I find it quite rich that Kanter was protesting China’s treatment of Tibet, with what looked like Chinese made shoes.

Kanter also forgets that a large portion of his (continued) NBA career earnings come from Nike, NBA clothing deal (Chinese made), and the tv rights income from Chinese viewership.

If he was truely against the CCP, he would no longer be taking their money, retire as a player and devote his time to politics and charitable causes.

I don't think that is how things works. Maybe in a society where everything is black and white with no gray areas, but in reality people can still advocate for a better society and speak out on perceived wrong without having to compromise their life savings. If that was the case, the whole society would become activists and the world wouldn't turn.

I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree.

Although you are correct that we live in a world of grey areas, Kanter is taking the moral high ground (which I respect) but he can’t have have things both ways, either he’s against the Chinese government and their policies on modern slave labour and their treatment of the Uyghurs’ or he isn’t. By indirectly taking Chinese money he is essentially a hypocrite.

In regards to Kanter’s life savings, he’s most likely already a multi-millionaire, so retiring as a player now won’t compromise his lifestyle too much IMO.
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Re: Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2021, 03:37:43 PM »

Online Roy H.

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LOL at yall bashing China on your made in China computers.

I find it quite rich that Kanter was protesting China’s treatment of Tibet, with what looked like Chinese made shoes.

Kanter also forgets that a large portion of his (continued) NBA career earnings come from Nike, NBA clothing deal (Chinese made), and the tv rights income from Chinese viewership.

If he was truely against the CCP, he would no longer be taking their money, retire as a player and devote his time to politics and charitable causes.

I don't think that is how things works. Maybe in a society where everything is black and white with no gray areas, but in reality people can still advocate for a better society and speak out on perceived wrong without having to compromise their life savings. If that was the case, the whole society would become activists and the world wouldn't turn.

I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree.

Although you are correct that we live in a world of grey areas, Kanter is taking the moral high ground (which I respect) but he can’t have have things both ways, either he’s against the Chinese government and their policies on modern slave labour and their treatment of the Uyghurs’ or he isn’t. By indirectly taking Chinese money he is essentially a hypocrite.

In regards to Kanter’s life savings, he’s most likely already a multi-millionaire, so retiring as a player now won’t compromise his lifestyle too much IMO.

Or, he’s using money from China to give him a bigger platform, which he uses against them.  He’s letting them finance his criticism.  Sounds pretty genius.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes