Kanter criticizes China; Celtics games blacked out?

[BringToughnessBack]

Lebron, the NBA, and our politicians do not support his criticism. I support his statement 100%

[Walker Wiggle]

I am really hoping the NBA draws the line here. I learned this morning that the Sixers are not being broadcast in China this year because the government is still protesting Daryl Morey's comments from more than a year ago (when he was GM of the Rockets, which they had blocked back then).

The NBA is a private organization, so legally speaking it can do whatever it wants. But it is ridiculous to allow the players the full range of political and social expression as it relates to injustice in the United States, only to restrict them from doing the same regarding injustice in other countries.

[Mahk E Mahk]

I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.

American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.

Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

if you’re willing to overlook the wanton IP theft and slave labor, then sure, they do capitalism better than we do. 

[Celtics4ever]

Of course, the league won't like him speaking out because of the huge market.   I think criticism should be focused on  the CCP  and not the Chinese People of course.

Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

I disagree they do capitalism better, but agree about them laying down the law and the rest of your statement.   What they have is a form of capitalism that benefits the state.

But just because China has many private companies, allows Communist-Party member Jack Ma to become a billionaire as head of Alibaba Group, and translates capitalist classics into Mandarin doesn’t mean it’s capitalist. The fact that few describe the Chinese economic system without putting a modifier in front of the term “capitalism” — “authoritarian,” “state,” “predatory,” “Communist,” etc. — should tell us something. As should the fact that the Chinese Communist Party, which follows the “guidance of Marxism-Leninism,” calls for a socialist market economy. The reality is that the differences between the Chinese and Western variants of capitalism are more of kind than of degree.

China is a hybrid economy in which the state uses an array of tools for Communist-Party ends. To start with, China has more than 150,000 state-owned enterprises, accounting for 40 percent of industrial assets. However, Chinese state capitalism is not just, or even principally, about the number and size of such enterprises; it’s about the central role the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) plays in virtually all aspects of economic life. In fact, CCP officials are part of many Chinese companies “to make sure the company follows the law.”

Chinese state capitalism is a system in which the purpose of firms — private and public — is to fulfill the goals of the Communist Party. And the CCP uses an array of tools to obtain that alignment: hard and soft power; carrots and sticks. One tool is turning a blind eye to, and in many cases actively instigating, intellectual-property theft from foreign organizations. Another is requiring most foreign firms to enter into joint ventures with Chinese firms as a condition of market access — an arrangement the Chinese call “exchanging market for technology

Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people. 

This has to be the funniest thing I read all day.  They are pretty heavy handed

China tops Amnesty International polls on executing civilians every year, killing more people than all the other countries in the world twice over.

Due to the secrecy of the state, the exact number of people executed in China will never be known, but it is estimated to be thousands.

The Chinese government was quick to issue new regulations last year, as Covid first took hold of the country.

Those violating Covid rules were warned they would be subject to speedy arrests and even the death penalty, which in China could be the firing squad.

That being said, we certainly are not perfect here either.   They are an amazing people with a rich history.

[Roy H.]

Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong...  And now China is engaging in a rapid nuclear arms race:

https://news.usni.org/2021/09/14/hyten-chinas-unprecedented-nuclear-modernization-chief-concern

https://www.economist.com/china/2021/07/31/china-is-rapidly-building-new-nuclear-missile-silos

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-catches-us-off-guard-hypersonic-missile-test-j79g009x8

Hypersonic orbiting nuclear missiles that caught our intelligence off guard?  Nothing to see here, so long as Hunter is getting paid.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong...  And now China is engaging in a rapid nuclear arms race:

https://news.usni.org/2021/09/14/hyten-chinas-unprecedented-nuclear-modernization-chief-concern

https://www.economist.com/china/2021/07/31/china-is-rapidly-building-new-nuclear-missile-silos

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-catches-us-off-guard-hypersonic-missile-test-j79g009x8

Hypersonic orbiting nuclear missiles that caught our intelligence off guard?  Nothing to see here, so long as Hunter is getting paid.

and when you say Hunter, you mean THE BIG GUY gets his cut.

[Neurotic Guy]

I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.

American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.

Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

The political scientists and economists among us would know better than me, but I think what you described sounds more to me like communism than capitalism.  Total government control of the economic system without private ownership and without encouragement of private enterprise.  Maybe Xi runs a tight ship with his company of a billion workers (?), but it's not capitalism.

[Kernewek]

I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.

American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.

Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

The political scientists and economists among us would know better than me, but I think what you described sounds more to me like communism than capitalism.  Total government control of the economic system without private ownership and without encouragement of private enterprise.  Maybe Xi runs a tight ship with his company of a billion workers (?), but it's not capitalism.

Before this gets too off the rails: China is an authoritarian capitalist country. Here's a good read on that from the Harvard Business Review:
https://hbr.org/2021/05/americans-dont-know-how-capitalist-china-is

[Kuberski33]

I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.

American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.

Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

The political scientists and economists among us would know better than me, but I think what you described sounds more to me like communism than capitalism.  Total government control of the economic system without private ownership and without encouragement of private enterprise.  Maybe Xi runs a tight ship with his company of a billion workers (?), but it's not capitalism.

They have successfully won the business for everything from apparel to smart phones and it's because customers all over the world choose to buy from them. The vast majority of those 100+ container ships off the coast of CA are carrying Chinese made goods.  Companies like Tik Tok and Alibaba are dominant in their niche's. 

At the same time they've created a huge middle class and right now are close to us in terms of being the largest economy in the world. They have either passed us or are about to.  I get cold called by Chinese vendors regularly looking to pitch their products.  It is very much a capitalistic system right now - just their version of it and it's more efficent than ours. 

But you can't go outside the parameters that the government has instituted and you can't publicly criticize them.  Just ask Jack Ma.

[Kuberski33]

I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.

American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.

Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

if you’re willing to overlook the wanton IP theft and slave labor, then sure, they do capitalism better than we do.

Yet everyone still keeps buying from them. And our companies all want access to their market. All I am saying is that they are more efficient.  But yes, they do steal our IP, have some questionable labor practices still in some areas and attempt to crush dissent. And they've probably given the world the gift of the Corona virus.

[nickagneta]

How thin skinned of a government is China if a couple people on the other side of the world is critical of them and they have to shut down games of teams with people who criticize them or entire league?

Hundreds of millions of Americans are critical of their own government and yet, the government is still functioning.

[86MaxwellSmart]

How thin skinned of a government is China if a couple people on the other side of the world is critical of them and they have to shut down games of teams with people who criticize them or entire league?

Hundreds of millions of Americans are critical of their own government and yet, the government is still functioning.

[/b]

For now

[gift]

It's important to recognize re: capitalism that China is making moves away from their economic/social arrangements of the last 30 or so years. Labels obfuscate the central points, but CCP is moving back toward centralized control and direction in many areas. This will probably not work out as well for the country as a whole. China has massive challenges internally. This might be one reason why they are ramping up conflicts externally.

In some ways China is already experiencing some of the challenges a receding empire might face, without having fully realized its empire. The CCP as an international power might have burned too quickly. Unfortunately for the people of China, the CCP have not burned too quickly to maintain control of the country internally.

[Mahk E Mahk]

I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.

American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.

Hate to say it but when it comes to economics, they probably do capitalism better than we do right now.  They're run like a company in that at the end of the day the CEO/Chairman Xi lays down the law and not following the company line/culture just isn't tolerated.

if you’re willing to overlook the wanton IP theft and slave labor, then sure, they do capitalism better than we do.

Yet everyone still keeps buying from them. And our companies all want access to their market. All I am saying is that they are more efficient.  But yes, they do steal our IP, have some questionable labor practices still in some areas and attempt to crush dissent. And they've probably given the world the gift of the Corona virus.

they are allegedly more efficient because they brazenly steal massive amounts of IP and they essentially employ slave labor in much of their manufacturing. i don’t consider that efficient; i consider that immoral and something other than capitalism.

companies want access to their “markets” due to abnormally low labor costs, driven by slave labor and horrific working conditions. it’s shameful US companies want to indirectly employ slave labor to control costs and drive margins. its the worst kept dirty secret that everyone knows but no one wants to discuss. it’s immoral and economic suicide in the long run.

the supply chain issues we’re currently experiencing are only a small forerunner of what could happen if china decided to flex and remind us how reliant we are on their markets. if the world gets to a WWIII scenario, the US is screwed due to its lack of manufacturing ability and reliance on china for basic necessities. for example, go research how much the US relies on china for active pharmaceutical ingredients.

[gift]

I support Kanter.

Will Chinese government block out Celticsstrong too??

I’d be surprised if it already isn’t blocked, but I’m definitely with Kanter on this one.

Someone has to stand up to China.

This is where American culture is supposed to influence China toward more tolerance. Unfortunately, too much of American culture has become $$$ culture and with those motivations it's easier for China to influence American culture toward intolerance.

American culture isn't going to change the Chinese government or the Chinese people in any meaningful way.  Chinese government has perfected controlling their people without doing so in a heavy handed way to most of their people.

I'm not talking about changing the CCP for the people of China. I'm talking about reducing the influence the CCP has outside of China. Currently, they have an undue amount and supposed western values should resist the kind of intolerance we see from Chinese institutions toward those matters the CCP deems undesirable.

What we've seen instead is years of evidence that western values are more about money than freedom or tolerance. All is not lost, but change in western culture and approach is necessary.