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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 11:40:22 AM

Title: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 11:40:22 AM
Currently, the Celts are capped out for next year, having a $73 million payroll for a salary cap that will be around $60 million.

However, theoretically, the Celtics could clear some decent cap space if KG retired.  (This is more of a thought exercise than anything else, so feel free to nit pick).  Here's how:

(All salary info found here:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGE3NDBqMElRUXh2REN4Q3pZRG1TU1E&gid=4)

1.  KG formally retires.  His $12.44 million comes off the books.

2.  We waive Pierce.  His salary counts as $5 million against our cap.

3.  We "stretch" Jason Terry's contract over 5 years.  His annual cap hit is $2.14 million.

4.  We "stretch" Brandon Bass contract over 5 years.  His annual cap hit is $2.67 million.

5.  (I'm not sure if this is allowed:) We "stretch" Pierce's contract over 3 years.  His annual cap hit is $1.67 million.

Under those circumstances, we'd have 6 players under contract, totaling approximately $31.4 million.  Add in $6.5 million in dead money for waived players, around $2.5 million for "incomplete roster charges", and say $1.5 million for a draft pick.

Assuming a $60 million cap, that would leave us about $18 million in cap room, and a $2.575 million room exception.  Does anybody think it's worth it?

EDIT:  Also, we could actually clear a small bit more, if we decided to waive Terry or Green.  We'd be limited to carrying around $9 million in dead money.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Who on January 29, 2013, 11:43:09 AM
Just trade Pierce and Terry. No need to waive or stretch their contracts.

People will offer expiring contracts for those two. No need to take a cap hit at all.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: LooseCannon on January 29, 2013, 11:57:15 AM
Probably not worth it unless you get a Top 10 NBA player.  I'd rather imagine a scenario where Pierce retires at the end of his current contract and Garnett decides to hang it up a year early at the same time.  At that point, Terry and Bass become expiring contracts with trade value.

I think the team should value being flexible until it determines how well Rondo will recover from his injury.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: slamtheking on January 29, 2013, 12:08:43 PM
I don't think it's worth it from the standpoint of who's left to draw in a FA worth that kind of $?  no KG, no PP and Rondo's out for decent portion of the season with no guarantee he'd ever return to the level of player he was pre-injury.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Chris on January 29, 2013, 12:12:15 PM
Currently, the Celts are capped out for next year, having a $73 million payroll for a salary cap that will be around $60 million.

However, theoretically, the Celtics could clear some decent cap space if KG retired.  (This is more of a thought exercise than anything else, so feel free to nit pick).  Here's how:

(All salary info found here:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGE3NDBqMElRUXh2REN4Q3pZRG1TU1E&gid=4)

1.  KG formally retires.  His $12.44 million comes off the books.

2.  We waive Pierce.  His salary counts as $5 million against our cap.

3.  We "stretch" Jason Terry's contract over 5 years.  His annual cap hit is $2.14 million.

4.  We "stretch" Brandon Bass contract over 5 years.  His annual cap hit is $2.67 million.

5.  (I'm not sure if this is allowed:) We "stretch" Pierce's contract over 3 years.  His annual cap hit is $1.67 million.

Under those circumstances, we'd have 6 players under contract, totaling approximately $31.4 million.  Add in $6.5 million in dead money for waived players, around $2.5 million for "incomplete roster charges", and say $1.5 million for a draft pick.

Assuming a $60 million cap, that would leave us about $18 million in cap room, and a $2.575 million room exception.  Does anybody think it's worth it?

EDIT:  Also, we could actually clear a small bit more, if we decided to waive Terry or Green.  We'd be limited to carrying around $9 million in dead money.

Can't we use the Amnesty on Pierce?
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: PhoSita on January 29, 2013, 12:12:48 PM
Just trade Pierce and Terry. No need to waive or stretch their contracts.

People will offer expiring contracts for those two. No need to take a cap hit at all.

Agree -- we could have even more space if we make every effort to trade Terry, Bass, and perhaps Pierce for expiring contracts.

The former two have decreased in value a lot this season, but I think other teams could still value them as supporting players if they don't have to give up much.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: rondohondo on January 29, 2013, 12:14:03 PM
I don't think it's worth it from the standpoint of who's left to draw in a FA worth that kind of $?  no KG, no PP and Rondo's out for decent portion of the season with no guarantee he'd ever return to the level of player he was pre-injury.

You can also take on a max salary player in a trade . We wouldn't have to match salary , meaning we could do a trade like

Minny sends: Kevin Love
Boston sends: Bradley and/or sully , plus picks

Makes it much easier to make trades
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Jeff on January 29, 2013, 12:16:19 PM
Roy, when you get the kinks worked out on this, I'd love it if you did a front page post on it.

cheers
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Kane3387 on January 29, 2013, 12:19:44 PM
We could use Amnesty on Pierce. But if you go that route then you should just trade him. Or at least work out a buyout, so he can choose his destination.

Question:

How many times can you "stretch" a contract?
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Who on January 29, 2013, 12:22:12 PM
Question:

How many times can you "stretch" a contract?

Not 100% certain ... but I think it is a percentage of your cap. You can do it as many times as you want up to that percentage. And I think the percentage was 25% of your cap.

So 25% of $58 million would be $14.5 million.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 12:22:47 PM
Probably not worth it unless you get a Top 10 NBA player.  I'd rather imagine a scenario where Pierce retires at the end of his current contract and Garnett decides to hang it up a year early at the same time.  At that point, Terry and Bass become expiring contracts with trade value.

I think the team should value being flexible until it determines how well Rondo will recover from his injury.

I agree that this is the way to go.  In the event that KG didn't retire, he'd have an attractive contract to move, if that's the direction we went.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 12:23:24 PM
Question:

How many times can you "stretch" a contract?

Not 100% certain ... but I think it is a percentage of your cap. You can do it as many times as you want up to that percentage. And I think the percentage was 25% of your cap.

So 25% of $58 million would be $14.5 million.

It's 15%.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: rondohondo on January 29, 2013, 12:25:53 PM
I don't see any reason why Danny wouldn't do this if he doesn't trade them first . We are 3 years past the 3 year window we had with KG and PP leading us. We have to move on at some point .
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 12:27:36 PM

Can't we use the Amnesty on Pierce?

We can.  However, that has to be used after July 1, after which point Pierce's contract will be fully guaranteed.  Under that scenario, it would cost ownership $15.3 million, rather than $5 million.  Is that extra $10 million worth $1.67 million in cap space?
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: PhoSita on January 29, 2013, 12:28:03 PM
Probably not worth it unless you get a Top 10 NBA player.  I'd rather imagine a scenario where Pierce retires at the end of his current contract and Garnett decides to hang it up a year early at the same time.  At that point, Terry and Bass become expiring contracts with trade value.

I think the team should value being flexible until it determines how well Rondo will recover from his injury.

I don't like the idea of hanging onto Terry and Bass until the last year of their contracts.  Terry's value, at least, is not likely to increase over time.  Bass's value may or may not increase.  Depends on whether he gets back to where he was last season or not. 

Anyway, those guys are vets who will block young players from getting minutes.  If it's at all possible to trade them for expirings or younger players on shorter contracts before the trade deadline or this summer, the team should do it, in my opinion.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: jay on January 29, 2013, 12:29:00 PM
I would say it is worth it if there are good enough free agents out there and you think you can convince 2 of them to sign starting in the 9 mil per year range.

From this list:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FreeAgents-12-13/nba-free-agents-2012-2013

Josh Smith
Ty Lawson (R)
OJ Mayo (PO)
Steph Curry (R)
Kevin Martin
David West
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Brandon Jennings (R)
Monta Ellis (Early Term.)
James Harden (R)
Jrue Holidy (R)
JJ Hickson
Tyreke Evans (R)
Jose Calderon
Paul Millsap
Al Jefferson



Thats a lot of restricted guys.  Maybe if you could get a big like Howard or Jefferson and a 4 man like Smith or Millsap.   

Jennings, Harden, Holidy,(to a lesser extent Evans), Curry would be big gets but they are restricted. 
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: jay on January 29, 2013, 12:30:54 PM
Obviously Howard and Paul are going to cost the max.  So pairing them with anyone wouldnt work.  Howard may be worth it.  Paul plays the same spot as Rondo, so I wouldnt want him for a max deal unless trading Rondo was in the plans.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: ssspence on January 29, 2013, 12:32:20 PM
Can someone breakdown 'stretching' for the group, or point to a good reference? Thanks.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: LooseCannon on January 29, 2013, 12:34:16 PM
If it's at all possible to trade them for expirings or younger players on shorter contracts before the trade deadline or this summer, the team should do it, in my opinion.

I think the team should operate under the assumption that it can be a contender next season, so it should avoid doing salary dumps of useful rotation players.  I'd consider moving Bass and Terry for players who are better fits with contracts that expire in 2014, not this year.  I would target 2014, with an option to extend it to 2015, as the summer to possibly blow things up.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: LooseCannon on January 29, 2013, 12:35:02 PM
Can someone breakdown 'stretching' for the group, or point to a good reference? Thanks.

Salary Cap FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q63)
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: gpap on January 29, 2013, 12:36:04 PM
Interesting and I wonder if Danny thinks more about shedding salary to clear space for next year when the trade deadline comes around.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: rondohondo on January 29, 2013, 12:36:36 PM
I wouldn't sign anyone to a max with the cap space , unless Dwight wants to come here.

Also wouldn't split it up between say Mayo and Millsap for 9 mil either. Then you are just stuck in nba hell like Detroit was when they signed Gordon and Charlie V.

You have to try to make a trade to get that impact player IMO and the cap space allows that.

If no trades come along , then you just sign guys on 1 year deals and suck for a season ( 2014 is supposed to be a pretty strong draft), and have that cap space available again the following year.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: gpap on January 29, 2013, 12:37:55 PM
If it's at all possible to trade them for expirings or younger players on shorter contracts before the trade deadline or this summer, the team should do it, in my opinion.

I think the team should operate under the assumption that it can be a contender next season, so it should avoid doing salary dumps of useful rotation players.  I'd consider moving Bass and Terry for players who are better fits with contracts that expire in 2014, not this year.  I would target 2014, with an option to extend it to 2015, as the summer to possibly blow things up.

I agree, at least for this year. They may want to think about blowing things up starting this summer, but I think as long as you have KG and Paul playing well, they still have a puncher's chance of making some noise this year in the playoffs
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 01:02:27 PM
I forgot earlier, Pierce can't be "stretched", because he signed his contract under the old CBA. 
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: KGs Knee on January 29, 2013, 01:20:10 PM
#1 and #2 make sense.  I could legitimately see KG retiring and doing the franchise a favor by forgoing his remaining salary.  Waiving Pierce makes sense if KG retires.

As for Bass/Terry, I'd rather trade them for expiring contracts now, or non-guaranteed deals in the off-season, as a way of clearing their salary.

Terry shouldn't be too difficult to move despite his bad play this year.  He has a proven history of being a valuable playoff contributer, and I'd imagine some "contender" out there would desire his service.

Bass, on the other hand, may be much more difficult to move.  Players like him are a dime-a-dozen.  using the stretch provision on him may be the only way to clear his salary.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: droopdog7 on January 29, 2013, 02:03:14 PM
Basic question.  Does a retiring player's contract amount simply go poof?  I would be surprised if it were that simple.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 02:05:19 PM
Basic question.  Does a retiring player's contract amount simply go poof?  I would be surprised if it were that simple.

If the player files retirement papers with the league, the team is under no obligation to pay him.  Only the actual amount the player is paid counts against the cap.
Title: Re: If KG retires, how much salary cap room could the Celtics clear?
Post by: eugen on January 29, 2013, 02:16:58 PM
I do see a reason why KG will retire next season. he can play for more 2-3 years. He is still a beast, our bes player