CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Texstyles on February 05, 2013, 09:59:37 AM
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I want to start by saying I do not want to see these guys go, but...
KG and Pierce to Clippers for Bledsoe,Jordan,Butler,Odom. I think This deal puts LA in a great position to win now. PP and KG with Griff and Paul could be deadly. As for C's, they get 2 young pieces for the future, and when Odoms 8 mill come off the books next year, with a few other moves have enough to bring in Big Al or J.Smith in via FA.
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
Not trading them and letting their contracts come off the book is better then this trade.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
LOl, can we do better? Seriously? An overpayed C who shoots 42% from the free throw line and can't play in the 4th quarter, Odom who we'd have to waive, Butler the only guy on the planet to go through Mountain Dew withdrawls, and a backup point guard. This collection just lost their third straight to the Wizards.
Are you seriously asking if we could do better than that for two Hall of Famers who are signed to very good deals for All Star caliber players?
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Yes, can we?
You name a better deal that we can do? Take in to consideration that the other team has to be a contender, has to be somewhere they want to go, and a team that is willing/have room to take on both there
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
LOl, can we do better? Seriously? An overpayed C who shoots 42% from the free throw line and can't play in the 4th quarter, Odom who we'd have to waive, Butler the only guy on the planet to go through Mountain Dew withdrawls, and a backup point guard. This collection just lost their third straight to the Wizards.
Are you seriously asking if we could do better than that for two Hall of Famers who are signed to very good deals for All Star caliber players?
Yes, Im serious.
Find me a better deal?
The team has to be a contender, has to be a prefered dest. for them, has to be a team that can take on both there contracts.
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Yes, can we?
You name a better deal that we can do? Take in to consideration that the other team has to be a contender, has to be somewhere they want to go, and a team that is willing/have room to take on both there
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
LOl, can we do better? Seriously? An overpayed C who shoots 42% from the free throw line and can't play in the 4th quarter, Odom who we'd have to waive, Butler the only guy on the planet to go through Mountain Dew withdrawls, and a backup point guard. This collection just lost their third straight to the Wizards.
Are you seriously asking if we could do better than that for two Hall of Famers who are signed to very good deals for All Star caliber players?
Yes, Im serious.
Find me a better deal?
The team has to be a contender, has to be a prefered dest. for them, has to be a team that can take on both there contracts.
A contender, preferred destination and can handle both of their contracts that makes us a better basketball team than your Clippers trade. Ok, let me think here...give me a minute...its coming to me...just a second...OK, I think I have it. Boston.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't understand. Yeah, he's overpaid for his current production. He's also a legitimate NBA center. Ainge just used a 1st round pick to get a center project who might not even be able to play regularly for another year or two. Where do you think Boston is going to get someone better than Jordan? Without massively overpaying him?
For pete's sake, Omer Asik averaged 3.1 pts and 5.3 rebounds with Chicago and got 3 years, 26 million from Houston. Roy Hibbert is getting 4 years, 58 million and has never averaged more than 13 points or 9 boards a game.
I'd kinda like to see KG and Pierce retire as Celtics, even if it makes the rebuilding process harder. Let's not kid ourselves, however. If KG and Pierce are gone and Boston has nothing but cap space to show for it, the team will almost certainly have to overpay or likely have to be in the lottery for several years just to get somebody as good as Jordan is now.
Mike
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Yes, can we?
You name a better deal that we can do? Take in to consideration that the other team has to be a contender, has to be somewhere they want to go, and a team that is willing/have room to take on both there
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
LOl, can we do better? Seriously? An overpayed C who shoots 42% from the free throw line and can't play in the 4th quarter, Odom who we'd have to waive, Butler the only guy on the planet to go through Mountain Dew withdrawls, and a backup point guard. This collection just lost their third straight to the Wizards.
Are you seriously asking if we could do better than that for two Hall of Famers who are signed to very good deals for All Star caliber players?
Yes, Im serious.
Find me a better deal?
The team has to be a contender, has to be a prefered dest. for them, has to be a team that can take on both there contracts.
A contender, preferred destination and can handle both of their contracts that makes us a better basketball team than your Clippers trade. Ok, let me think here...give me a minute...its coming to me...just a second...OK, I think I have it. Boston.
Yeah, 'cause being a team struggling to hang onto a .500 record and the 8th playoff spot in the East is the ultimate fantasy of all fans.
Mike
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
Not trading them and letting their contracts come off the book is better then this trade.
I was just about to say... Yes we can do better, by keeping them both.
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That makes the Clippers starting five virtually unstoppable.
I want their first rounder, too, in this deal.
I think you're right that it might be the best thing out there for us, but I'm in no hurry to find out with a few weeks to go before the deadline.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't understand. Yeah, he's overpaid for his current production. He's also a legitimate NBA center. Ainge just used a 1st round pick to get a center project who might not even be able to play regularly for another year or two. Where do you think Boston is going to get someone better than Jordan? Without massively overpaying him?
For pete's sake, Omer Asik averaged 3.1 pts and 5.3 rebounds with Chicago and got 3 years, 26 million from Houston. Roy Hibbert is getting 4 years, 58 million and has never averaged more than 13 points or 9 boards a game.
I'd kinda like to see KG and Pierce retire as Celtics, even if it makes the rebuilding process harder. Let's not kid ourselves, however. If KG and Pierce are gone and Boston has nothing but cap space to show for it, the team will almost certainly have to overpay or likely have to be in the lottery for several years just to get somebody as good as Jordan is now.
Mike
According to Hoopsworld, Jordan has a 15% trade kicker so his average salary for 2013-2015 (2 seasons) would be $12.9M. That is an awful lot for 9 pts and 8 rebs or whatever his production is.
It is too bad that this is not a little bit better contract because otherwise the idea of Bledsoe and Jordan for KG is a decent idea. Jordan did have 21 rebs the other night which is huge so he certainly has some value.
Expanding this to include Pierce for Odom and Butler is far less appealing to me. How about Pierce and Terry for Gasol and Earl Clark, then flip Gasol to Toronto for Bargnani and a young player we like.
It is pretty tough to come up with good trades for these guys but it is fun to try.
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Getting Bargs who has two more years on his deal at around 11 million isn't a good deal (he has an ETO but I doubt he exercises it).
At this point Bargs has settled in my mind as an Al Harrington/Sheed with the C's type. Can space the floor for you and not a whole lot else. At least Sheed could play some mean post defense consistently and foul really hard.
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For pete's sake, Omer Asik averaged 3.1 pts and 5.3 rebounds with Chicago and got 3 years, 26 million from Houston.
Asik is currently paid less and producing more than Jordan in a roughly similar role. I don't see how this example helps your argument.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan.
It's the standard cliche that you can't teach height or athleticism. Given past team deficiencies in both areas, some fans may be too desperate in wanting a player who possess both attributes with out fully considering the player's negative traits.
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Yes, can we?
You name a better deal that we can do? Take in to consideration that the other team has to be a contender, has to be somewhere they want to go, and a team that is willing/have room to take on both there
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
LOl, can we do better? Seriously? An overpayed C who shoots 42% from the free throw line and can't play in the 4th quarter, Odom who we'd have to waive, Butler the only guy on the planet to go through Mountain Dew withdrawls, and a backup point guard. This collection just lost their third straight to the Wizards.
Are you seriously asking if we could do better than that for two Hall of Famers who are signed to very good deals for All Star caliber players?
Yes, Im serious.
Find me a better deal?
The team has to be a contender, has to be a prefered dest. for them, has to be a team that can take on both there contracts.
A contender, preferred destination and can handle both of their contracts that makes us a better basketball team than your Clippers trade. Ok, let me think here...give me a minute...its coming to me...just a second...OK, I think I have it. Boston.
Yeah, 'cause being a team struggling to hang onto a .500 record and the 8th playoff spot in the East is the ultimate fantasy of all fans.
Mike
Add Jordan (if this was Micheal in his prime then I get it but not DeAndre) and Bledsoe, subtract Pierce and Garnett. Are we now contenders?
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For pete's sake, Omer Asik averaged 3.1 pts and 5.3 rebounds with Chicago and got 3 years, 26 million from Houston.
Asik is currently paid less and producing more than Jordan in a roughly similar role. I don't see how this example helps your argument.
I am shocked...SHOCKED...that you fail to see the obvious implication. Asik's production in Chicago was significantly below Jordan's and that's the contract he got. If a big is producing better numbers, as Jordan is, you're going to have to pay more than that in almost all circumstances. If Asik continues to get the numbers he is this season, what do you think he'll command on the market when his current deal is up?
The argument isn't just KG vs. Bledsoe/Jordan. The argument also includes KG vs. whatever lesser deal you might get for him and Bledsoe/Jordan vs. nothing but cap space, which is what Boston will have if KG simply retires in Green.
Let me try and put it even more simply.
KG for Bledsoe/Jordan isn't a great deal. But Bledsoe/Jordan is probably better than anything else Boston could get now and Bledsoe/Jordan will very likely be a whole lot better than whatever Boston could get with the cap space left after KG retires.
Sheesh.
Mike
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I want to start by saying I do not want to see these guys go, but...
KG and Pierce to Clippers for Bledsoe,Jordan,Butler,Odom. I think This deal puts LA in a great position to win now. PP and KG with Griff and Paul could be deadly. As for C's, they get 2 young pieces for the future, and when Odoms 8 mill come off the books next year, with a few other moves have enough to bring in Big Al or J.Smith in via FA.
Yeah, we should just hand the ring to them, why not?
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I'm enamored with him for several reasons.
1. Long and Athletic
2. Good Rebounder
3. Only 24 years old
4. How many good young centers are there in the league.
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No.
Celtics give away the best two players and take back the worst contract (Jordan)
For a small guard of the future to go along with the other two small guards of the present and future.
Yes, can we?
You name a better deal that we can do? Take in to consideration that the other team has to be a contender, has to be somewhere they want to go, and a team that is willing/have room to take on both there
Look I hear ya, tough to stomach, but can we do better?
Im pretty sure Their are not many other teams that KG waives his clause for.
Once again I would prefer to keep them, but if we are going to trade I think it works, everyone comes out happy...IMO
LOl, can we do better? Seriously? An overpayed C who shoots 42% from the free throw line and can't play in the 4th quarter, Odom who we'd have to waive, Butler the only guy on the planet to go through Mountain Dew withdrawls, and a backup point guard. This collection just lost their third straight to the Wizards.
Are you seriously asking if we could do better than that for two Hall of Famers who are signed to very good deals for All Star caliber players?
Yes, Im serious.
Find me a better deal?
The team has to be a contender, has to be a prefered dest. for them, has to be a team that can take on both there contracts.
A contender, preferred destination and can handle both of their contracts that makes us a better basketball team than your Clippers trade. Ok, let me think here...give me a minute...its coming to me...just a second...OK, I think I have it. Boston.
Yeah, 'cause being a team struggling to hang onto a .500 record and the 8th playoff spot in the East is the ultimate fantasy of all fans.
Mike
Add Jordan (if this was Micheal in his prime then I get it but not DeAndre) and Bledsoe, subtract Pierce and Garnett. Are we now contenders?
I'm not saying trade KG and Pierce for Bledsoe and Jordan. I wouldn't do that deal even if the Clippers through in Odom and Butler. But let's say you do that deal. Boston certainly isn't going to be much worse with Bledsoe, Jordan, Butler and Odom than they have been for most of this season with KG, Pierce and Rondo. Boston also gets much younger, gets some salary cap help, gets assets that will have FAR greater trade value in the future and getting Bledsoe makes trading Rondo and getting back a major star much more possible.
Mike
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no thanks on this deal. only thing I'd want from the Clips for KG/PP is Griffin and that's not happening
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I'm enamored with him for several reasons.
1. Long and Athletic
2. Good Rebounder
3. Only 24 years old
4. How many good young centers are there in the league.
Monroe, Drummond, Cousins, Sanders, Hickson... really depends on what your definition of "young" and "center".
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I'm not saying trade KG and Pierce for Bledsoe and Jordan. I wouldn't do that deal even if the Clippers through in Odom and Butler. But let's say you do that deal. Boston certainly isn't going to be much worse with Bledsoe, Jordan, Butler and Odom than they have been for most of this season with KG, Pierce and Rondo. Boston also gets much younger, gets some salary cap help, gets assets that will have FAR greater trade value in the future and getting Bledsoe makes trading Rondo and getting back a major star much more possible.
Mike
its a matter of opinion, but I feel the Cap Space gained from KG/PP retiring to be better assets than a backup pg (Bledsoe) and the worst FT shooter in the league (Jordan).
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I'm enamored with him for several reasons.
1. Long and Athletic
2. Good Rebounder
3. Only 24 years old
4. How many good young centers are there in the league.
First three are good.
The problem is, he does not fit into the 4th group.
And he has also appears to have hit a ceiling. There has been little recent growth.
More to the point, you spend that kind of money on a serviceable big man (which he is) after you have the stars in place. The Celtics do not. That contract along with Green's will doom the Celtic into the range of 9th seed in the east hoping to get lucky in the lotto.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I'm enamored with him for several reasons.
1. Long and Athletic
2. Good Rebounder
3. Only 24 years old
4. How many good young centers are there in the league.
First three are good.
The problem is, he does not fit into the 4th group.
And he has also appears to have hit a ceiling. There has been little recent growth.
More to the point, you spend that kind of money on a serviceable big man (which he is) after you have the stars in place. The Celtics do not. That contract along with Green's will doom the Celtic into the range of 9th seed in the east hoping to get lucky in the lotto.
We have a very different view on his progression. I think he has not hit a ceiling but a small dip before more progression (think predictive triangle for all those who are big into technical stock analysis). I think once his progression continues he will be worth every dollar of his contract.
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But let's say you do that deal. Boston certainly isn't going to be much worse with Bledsoe, Jordan, Butler and Odom than they have been for most of this season with KG, Pierce and Rondo. Boston also gets much younger, gets some salary cap help, gets assets that will have FAR greater trade value in the future and getting Bledsoe makes trading Rondo and getting back a major star much more possible.
We'd definitely be much worse with Bledsoe, Jordan, Butler and Odom than Pierce, Garnett and Rondo (who btw we could easily bring back all of next year and make another run at it with a healthy Sully, Rondo, and another year of healing from Green and Wilcox.
Jordan is horrible. I had to watch that game with the Clippers announcers and they said Jordan can't play in the 4th quarter because of his foul shooting. He certainly can't be out there in crunch time. So what value does he really give you?
Butler I have no real use for. He scores sometimes makes 2mil a year more than Bass and has a PER about the same.
I live in Fort Worth so I saw what Odom now is, and 8.2mil albatross. Sure it comes off the books, for almost $7mil less than Pierce would come off the books it we didn't pick up his option.
Bledsoe is a good backup point guard. I'm not sure he is anything special as a starter. The Clippers seem to be struggling a bit with him as a starter.
I just don't see any upside in this trade at all. The goal in sports is to get better and this doesn't make us better in the least. Not now, not next year, not ever.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I'm enamored with him for several reasons.
1. Long and Athletic
2. Good Rebounder
3. Only 24 years old
4. How many good young centers are there in the league.
Monroe, Drummond, Cousins, Sanders, Hickson... really depends on what your definition of "young" and "center".
I guess that's a good peer group. I think that list goes Cousins, Monroe, Sanders, Drummond, Jordan then Hickson.
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DeAndre Jordan is overpaid. Golden State signed him to an offer sheet that they hoped would be more expensive than the Clippers were willing to match (and the Warriors waived Jeremy Lin to create cap room for that offer sheet). The Clipper had been hoping to sign him to something more like five years and $40m instead of 4yrs/$43m.
From what I have read, deciding to overpay a bit for Jordan had a bit to do with his being good friends with Blake Griffin.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I'm enamored with him for several reasons.
1. Long and Athletic
2. Good Rebounder
3. Only 24 years old
4. How many good young centers are there in the league.
Monroe, Drummond, Cousins, Sanders, Hickson... really depends on what your definition of "young" and "center".
I guess that's a good peer group. I think that list goes Cousins, Monroe, Sanders, Drummond, Jordan then Hickson.
I agree that a good, young (if you define this as 25 and younger) center is probably one of the rarer commodities in the NBA. The problems here are twofold:
(1) Jordan is not that good (no free throw shooting + no offensive game other that the wide open layup is a combination that cannot be ignored).
(2) His price tag is way steep. People complain about Green's contract; Jordan will be making $3 million more when trade.
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Yeah I don't understand why people are enamored with DeAndre Jordan. If he was still on a rookie deal or a even a cheap one it'd make sense. Right now the comparisons to Perk are apt for him, alebit with a different skill set.
I'm enamored with him for several reasons.
1. Long and Athletic
2. Good Rebounder
3. Only 24 years old
4. How many good young centers are there in the league.
Monroe, Drummond, Cousins, Sanders, Hickson... really depends on what your definition of "young" and "center".
I guess that's a good peer group. I think that list goes Cousins, Monroe, Sanders, Drummond, Jordan then Hickson.
I would add a bunch of guys to that list- Brook and Robin Lopez, Kosta Koufos, JaVale McGee, Valanciunas and Enes Kanter.
I would take most of them over Jordan, especially since almost all are cheaper!!!
I think Jordan is a commodity, but he's not THAT rare. There are about 20 guys under the age of thirty playing better center for less money right now.