Yabusele fined in China for not paying enough attention during anthem

[SHAQATTACK]

They don't mess around over there when it comes to loyalty to country - Unlike the U.S. , where we are too busy apologizing for creating and building the greatest country in the history of mankind.

agree

We could use some of their discipline here. Imagine if the kneeling nfl  players tried that stunt in China lol

Flogging would be appropriate.  .....or worse leave the socialist paradise and live in the awful USA

[Surferdad]

They don't mess around over there when it comes to loyalty to country - Unlike the U.S. , where we are too busy apologizing for creating and building the greatest country in the history of mankind.

agree

We could use some of their discipline here. Imagine if the kneeling nfl  players tried that stunt in China lol

As a patriot who definitely loves and most importantly understands America I'm always saying we need to be more like Communist China when it comes to punishing free expression.

what free expression do you have when on the clock for a company

Back in the 80's I was in grad school and we had a post-doc from Germany who could not understand this.  He kept thinking that it was wrong for a private company to limit your free speech rights and other 'rights'.

Agree with ederson, the term is respect, not loyalty.

[slamtheking]

They don't mess around over there when it comes to loyalty to country - Unlike the U.S. , where we are too busy apologizing for creating and building the greatest country in the history of mankind.

agree

We could use some of their discipline here. Imagine if the kneeling nfl  players tried that stunt in China lol

As a patriot who definitely loves and most importantly understands America I'm always saying we need to be more like Communist China when it comes to punishing free expression.

what free expression do you have when on the clock for a company

Back in the 80's I was in grad school and we had a post-doc from Germany who could not understand this.  He kept thinking that it was wrong for a private company to limit your free speech rights and other 'rights'.

Agree with ederson, the term is respect, not loyalty.

I think what gets lost in the debate over how much free speech someone has and what limits can be put on it by an employer is that 'free' speech isn't necessarily 'free'.

I think there's a couple of basic considerations:
- everyone's employed by someone.  that doesn't remove their freedoms granted in the constitution for free speech.
- just because you have the freedom to say what you want, it doesn't mean you're free from the ramifications of what you say.  This goes towards your employment, social life, etc....

if you say something that damages your employer, I believe you're free to do so.  You're not free from the ramifications though which may include termination of your employment.

[Surferdad]

They don't mess around over there when it comes to loyalty to country - Unlike the U.S. , where we are too busy apologizing for creating and building the greatest country in the history of mankind.

agree

We could use some of their discipline here. Imagine if the kneeling nfl  players tried that stunt in China lol

As a patriot who definitely loves and most importantly understands America I'm always saying we need to be more like Communist China when it comes to punishing free expression.

what free expression do you have when on the clock for a company

Back in the 80's I was in grad school and we had a post-doc from Germany who could not understand this.  He kept thinking that it was wrong for a private company to limit your free speech rights and other 'rights'.

Agree with ederson, the term is respect, not loyalty.

I think what gets lost in the debate over how much free speech someone has and what limits can be put on it by an employer is that 'free' speech isn't necessarily 'free'.

I think there's a couple of basic considerations:
- everyone's employed by someone.  that doesn't remove their freedoms granted in the constitution for free speech.
- just because you have the freedom to say what you want, it doesn't mean you're free from the ramifications of what you say.  This goes towards your employment, social life, etc....

if you say something that damages your employer, I believe you're free to do so.  You're not free from the ramifications though which may include termination of your employment.

Right.  I thought it was understood that we are using the term 'free' in this context as 'free without consequences'.  Speaking for my own example, this is what my German former post-doc colleague was saying.

[hwangjini_1]

They don't mess around over there when it comes to loyalty to country - Unlike the U.S. , where we are too busy apologizing for creating and building the greatest country in the history of mankind.

agree

We could use some of their discipline here. Imagine if the kneeling nfl  players tried that stunt in China lol

As a patriot who definitely loves and most importantly understands America I'm always saying we need to be more like Communist China when it comes to punishing free expression.

what free expression do you have when on the clock for a company

Back in the 80's I was in grad school and we had a post-doc from Germany who could not understand this.  He kept thinking that it was wrong for a private company to limit your free speech rights and other 'rights'.

Agree with ederson, the term is respect, not loyalty.

I think what gets lost in the debate over how much free speech someone has and what limits can be put on it by an employer is that 'free' speech isn't necessarily 'free'.

I think there's a couple of basic considerations:
- everyone's employed by someone.  that doesn't remove their freedoms granted in the constitution for free speech.
- just because you have the freedom to say what you want, it doesn't mean you're free from the ramifications of what you say.  This goes towards your employment, social life, etc....

if you say something that damages your employer, I believe you're free to do so.  You're not free from the ramifications though which may include termination of your employment.

there does seem to be an inherent contradiction here. you are free to say anything, but can be punished for it. you can speak against a company, but they can fire you/punish you.

similarly, the logic also runs that you are free to say something against a government, but you can be punished for it. you can speak against a government, but they can fine you, jail you, maim you, and so on.

same logic it looks like to me.

are you free if your action results in your punishment? or are we saying that free speech has limits and those limits are x, y, and z?

[slamtheking]

They don't mess around over there when it comes to loyalty to country - Unlike the U.S. , where we are too busy apologizing for creating and building the greatest country in the history of mankind.

agree

We could use some of their discipline here. Imagine if the kneeling nfl  players tried that stunt in China lol

As a patriot who definitely loves and most importantly understands America I'm always saying we need to be more like Communist China when it comes to punishing free expression.

what free expression do you have when on the clock for a company

Back in the 80's I was in grad school and we had a post-doc from Germany who could not understand this.  He kept thinking that it was wrong for a private company to limit your free speech rights and other 'rights'.

Agree with ederson, the term is respect, not loyalty.

I think what gets lost in the debate over how much free speech someone has and what limits can be put on it by an employer is that 'free' speech isn't necessarily 'free'.

I think there's a couple of basic considerations:
- everyone's employed by someone.  that doesn't remove their freedoms granted in the constitution for free speech.
- just because you have the freedom to say what you want, it doesn't mean you're free from the ramifications of what you say.  This goes towards your employment, social life, etc....

if you say something that damages your employer, I believe you're free to do so.  You're not free from the ramifications though which may include termination of your employment.

there does seem to be an inherent contradiction here. you are free to say anything, but can be punished for it. you can speak against a company, but they can fire you/punish you.

similarly, the logic also runs that you are free to say something against a government, but you can be punished for it. you can speak against a government, but they can fine you, jail you, maim you, and so on.

same logic it looks like to me.

are you free if your action results in your punishment? or are we saying that free speech has limits and those limits are x, y, and z?

interesting point about the govt.  the govt doesn't pay you unless your a govt employee.  my wife happens to work for the govt and she has to be conscientious of what she says because like any employer, they can take exception to what she says if it crosses a line. 

I think there are limits to what you can say.  shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater is the best known example.  Hate speech also has its ramifications due to civil rights.   it's a fine line that occasionally makes its way to the SC for a judgement.