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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsElite on May 23, 2018, 02:00:12 AM

Title: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: CelticsElite on May 23, 2018, 02:00:12 AM
https://uproxx.com/dimemag/marcus-smart-free-agency-rumors-boston-celtics/amp/

“I’ve talked to lots of people around the Celtics and around the league about Marcus Smart. If Marcus Smart was willing to take a – let’s say Sacramento for arguments sake or another team that isn’t quite good. And they offer him $14 million a year. And the Celtics say, ‘We can’t pay you that. But we’ll pay you $12 (million).’ My question to them was will Marcus Smart take it because they’re contending, he’s a cult hero in town. Every one of them said, ‘Hell no, he’s going for the money.’ I’ve never asked him this question. But that’s the impression I get. You can’t blame young guys who want to go out to the highest bidder and thinks he should be a starter and he’s not going to be one in Boston for many years to come.”



Interesting to note, Zach Lowe disagrees (however I don't know if he has asked inside sources for opinions  or its just a hunch):
https://twitter.com/BlazersBySagar/status/998734380070678528
"Simmons: “Is Kyrie Irving on the Celtics next year?”

Lowe: “Yes.”

Simmons: “Is Terry Rozier on the Celtics next year?”

Lowe: “Yup. I think everyone’s on the Celtics next year. I think [Marcus] Smart takes his qualifying offer."
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: celticsclay on May 23, 2018, 02:28:41 AM
Jackie Mac sold out for espn. Take her less seriously than I used to
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: trickybilly on May 23, 2018, 02:31:29 AM
??? His qualifying offer??

"Hi Marcus, we are prepared to offer you 56 million dollars of guaranteed money to play in Sacramento"

"Oh wow, super sweet of you, but I'll just take the 6 million, and hope everything turns out better once I fall even further down the roster with a healthy Kyrie and Hayward."

LOL - great hot take Zach.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: TheSundanceKid on May 23, 2018, 02:38:35 AM
Jackie Mac sold out for espn. Take her less seriously than I used to

She's still often right more than others are.

I don't believe her in this though. Maybe if the difference in offers is huge but for a couple of mill a year it's not worth him leaving. I guess if he thinks being a starter is that important then he would but he doesn't seem like the type of player to prioritise that over winning
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: sirnastee on May 23, 2018, 03:20:51 AM
??? His qualifying offer??

"Hi Marcus, we are prepared to offer you 56 million dollars of guaranteed money to play in Sacramento"

"Oh wow, super sweet of you, but I'll just take the 6 million, and hope everything turns out better once I fall even further down the roster with a healthy Kyrie and Hayward."

LOL - great hot take Zach.

I actually agree with Lowe.  I think there's a great chance that Smart finds himself with no real long term offers.  With all the free agents this summer, and less cap space than previous summers, I don't know if any team with salary cap is going to want to spend 10+ million per year on Smart at a long-term contract.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: nickagneta on May 23, 2018, 03:42:33 AM
Apparently, much like Rozier, Smart fancies himself as a starter, wants to start someplace, and get paid as much as possible. Do I think Smart gives Boston a discount? Nope, because he will never be a starter here, his offensive role is just going to diminish and so are his minutes starting next year.

If I am Danny and can snag him for $9 or maybe as high as $10 million, I sign him. If Smart signs an offer sheet at $12 million plus, you have to let him walk and grab a replacement like Grayson Allen in the draft.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: greece66 on May 23, 2018, 03:59:00 AM
I also think Smart is gone this summer.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: mr. dee on May 23, 2018, 05:29:50 AM
So much for an article about an "impression he get".
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: The Oracle on May 23, 2018, 06:39:56 AM
Apparently, much like Rozier, Smart fancies himself as a starter, wants to start someplace, and get paid as much as possible. Do I think Smart gives Boston a discount? Nope, because he will never be a starter here, his offensive role is just going to diminish and so are his minutes starting next year.

If I am Danny and can snag him for $9 or maybe as high as $10 million, I sign him. If Smart signs an offer sheet at $12 million plus, you have to let him walk and grab a replacement like Grayson Allen in the draft.
The rumor prior to the beginning of the regular season was that Brad was going to start Smart until he told Brad that he would prefer coming off the bench.  I don't know the validity of that but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true.  The importance of starting is highly overrated, playing starter minutes matters more and he should continue to warrant such.  His offensive role should diminish with Hayward and Irving back next year and that will make him even better.

Nothing good can come from the Celtics going all cheap Charlie on Smart and he ends up taking the qualifying offer, that would send the wrong message to Horford, Irving, Hayward and everyone else.  If the Celtics lose talent trying to stay out of the luxury tax at this stage they should be torn apart by the fan base as well.  4yr.-40mill. should probably be the very minimum they get away with signing him for no matter the market, I would expect more like 4yr.-50mill.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Roy H. on May 23, 2018, 06:41:03 AM
I think he should take the money. $2 million per year over four years is a pretty significant amount of money for a young guy.

That said, it’s not even claimed that the people interviewed have any inside knowledge.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: mahonedog88 on May 23, 2018, 07:12:50 AM
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he goes for the money.  It's the nature of professional sports generally speaking, especially for a guy hoping to get his first and maybe only big pay day.  Plus starting vs. coming off the bench can always be a big selling point for guys.

If you look at this roster and the contract situations, Smart and Baynes are the only contributing players on this team that are currently not guaranteed to be here next year.  My hope is that they each sign 1 year deals for fair market value, maybe even slightly less than that, so that we can bring the entire gang back next season with our full squad healthy with a real crack at the title.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: RLewis35 on May 23, 2018, 07:18:53 AM
I love Marcus but he isn’t the type of player that will make a bottom feeder all of a sudden be a regular playoff team.  He will take a playoff team and make them much more tough fierce and able to contend.

Based on that theory and looking at who has cap space, the Pacers are the only team I’d be worried offer him more than 10M per year on a contract we wouldn’t match.

I don’t see Sacramento or Atlanta or the nets or lakers offering him money closer to 15M per. I think he ends up staying.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: boscel33 on May 23, 2018, 07:43:35 AM
If he's going for the money, then let's help him in a S&T somewhere.....
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: celts55 on May 23, 2018, 07:48:46 AM
I agree, he makes a good team better. He doesn't really move the needle for a bad team. He's not going to get the Nets into the playoffs, for example.

That being said, if a good team was to offer him more money, I wouldn't blame him for taking it.

Let's face it, there is no loyalty in the NBA. Danny had no problem trading IT after all he did for the Celtics last year. Played hurt, losing his sister, helping them recruit Haywood and Horford. None of that matters. Then for some reason people are disappointed when a player takes more money somewhere else. Why should he take less to stay, when he could very well be traded to any team at any time. At least this way he gets to pick where he goes. 
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Rakulp on May 23, 2018, 08:10:49 AM
I think he should take the money. $2 million per year over four years is a pretty significant amount of money for a young guy.

That said, it’s not even claimed that the people interviewed have any inside knowledge.

Four years of probable mediocrity vs four years of contending for championships practically guaranteed could also play a role into any decision.

Under that scenario, he's already making 12 mill a year for four years...we ham and eggers are lucky to see triple digit k salaries...he's set for life with that money, as long as life doesn't include drugs, pricey women, or investing in an All You Can Eat Vegan Buffet! :)

But hanging with your buds, drawing those offensive fouls while seeing the opposing player go WTH?  And having the Garden crowd chant your name when you do that?

...priceless.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: TheSundanceKid on May 23, 2018, 08:25:03 AM
I think he should take the money. $2 million per year over four years is a pretty significant amount of money for a young guy.

That said, it’s not even claimed that the people interviewed have any inside knowledge.

It is a lot, you're right. The contracts in the NBA are interesting. Coming of a rookie deal guys tend to massively increase their salary wherever they go.

What I don't think gets much attention is the 3rd contract a player signs. Maybe it's because most are out of the league at that point. But I would love to see some numbers about how players impact their 3rd contract by moving away from something that is working for a few million extra a year.

Chandler Parsons for example, KCP and Monroe also spring to mind. Chasing the money isn't always the best long term option. I think it will very much depend who offers Smart the money as to whether he takes it or not.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: mef730 on May 23, 2018, 08:26:25 AM
Apparently, much like Rozier, Smart fancies himself as a starter, wants to start someplace, and get paid as much as possible. Do I think Smart gives Boston a discount? Nope, because he will never be a starter here, his offensive role is just going to diminish and so are his minutes starting next year.

If I am Danny and can snag him for $9 or maybe as high as $10 million, I sign him. If Smart signs an offer sheet at $12 million plus, you have to let him walk and grab a replacement like Grayson Allen in the draft.
The rumor prior to the beginning of the regular season was that Brad was going to start Smart until he told Brad that he would prefer coming off the bench.  I don't know the validity of that but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true.  The importance of starting is highly overrated, playing starter minutes matters more and he should continue to warrant such.  His offensive role should diminish with Hayward and Irving back next year and that will make him even better.

Nothing good can come from the Celtics going all cheap Charlie on Smart and he ends up taking the qualifying offer, that would send the wrong message to Horford, Irving, Hayward and everyone else.  If the Celtics lose talent trying to stay out of the luxury tax at this stage they should be torn apart by the fan base as well.  4yr.-40mill. should probably be the very minimum they get away with signing him for no matter the market, I would expect more like 4yr.-50mill.

Amen to that. My season tickets went up 15% this year. They can pay up for him, if money is simply the issue.

I think it's a moot point, though. I don't see anyone offering him 4/56.

Mike
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: td450 on May 23, 2018, 08:30:31 AM
??? His qualifying offer??

"Hi Marcus, we are prepared to offer you 56 million dollars of guaranteed money to play in Sacramento"

"Oh wow, super sweet of you, but I'll just take the 6 million, and hope everything turns out better once I fall even further down the roster with a healthy Kyrie and Hayward."

LOL - great hot take Zach.

What Zach Lowe said was that this summer will be an unusually tight year for cap space, and that he may not get as good an offer as he wants. By taking the qualifying offer he can try next year too, when more teams have room to offer him something.

Teams are wising up. Don't expect to see Evan Turner type contracts being tossed around any more. Marcus might not get an offer this summer. He better hope no one watched Monday's game, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: footey on May 23, 2018, 08:35:26 AM
Jackie Mac sold out for espn. Take her less seriously than I used to

Went to the highest bidder. Just like Marcus.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: jambr380 on May 23, 2018, 08:37:57 AM
I'd be disappointed if we couldn't bring Smart back, but not absolutely heartbroken. We are going to be good next year...like really good. Hopefully we will be able to keep Baynes at 120% of his current salary because if we use the MLE on a Smart replacement, we may even be able to bring in a player like Tyreke Evans or even bring back AB.

Then there will be several vets likely willing to take the minimum for a chance at a championship.

Smart does things that I've never seen any other player do and his energy and tenacity is contagious, but he isn't even slated to be a starter - not even close really. We can't afford to spend more than $10M/yr on him, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: td450 on May 23, 2018, 08:50:46 AM
Apparently, much like Rozier, Smart fancies himself as a starter, wants to start someplace, and get paid as much as possible. Do I think Smart gives Boston a discount? Nope, because he will never be a starter here, his offensive role is just going to diminish and so are his minutes starting next year.

If I am Danny and can snag him for $9 or maybe as high as $10 million, I sign him. If Smart signs an offer sheet at $12 million plus, you have to let him walk and grab a replacement like Grayson Allen in the draft.
The rumor prior to the beginning of the regular season was that Brad was going to start Smart until he told Brad that he would prefer coming off the bench.  I don't know the validity of that but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true.  The importance of starting is highly overrated, playing starter minutes matters more and he should continue to warrant such.  His offensive role should diminish with Hayward and Irving back next year and that will make him even better.

Nothing good can come from the Celtics going all cheap Charlie on Smart and he ends up taking the qualifying offer, that would send the wrong message to Horford, Irving, Hayward and everyone else.  If the Celtics lose talent trying to stay out of the luxury tax at this stage they should be torn apart by the fan base as well.  4yr.-40mill. should probably be the very minimum they get away with signing him for no matter the market, I would expect more like 4yr.-50mill.

Amen to that. My season tickets went up 15% this year. They can pay up for him, if money is simply the issue.

I think it's a moot point, though. I don't see anyone offering him 4/56.

Mike

You have to know Ainge doesn't give a [dang] what anyone else thinks. He's going to make the best long term decision for the team. He will not get bogged down paying the middle of the roster big money, and if he pays anyone it will be Rozier, not Smart. They just can't give both guys over $10M a year.

Remember, Rozier can be extended this summer, even if he can't field an offer from anyone else. Ainge could appeal to Rozier that he could be the Vinnie Johnson of a long term contender, and that could be a better career choice than averaging 18 pts a game for the Magic. Ainge may tell Rozier that there is one well paid spot available, and ask him if he wants it.

I'm worried about Marcus the same way I was worried about IT. He's probably going to be very upset when he finds out what the market will bear. Ainge will not give him a mercy contract, either.


Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: celticinorlando on May 23, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
I expect Boston to draft a defensive minded guard this year just in case.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Big333223 on May 23, 2018, 09:13:57 AM
https://uproxx.com/dimemag/marcus-smart-free-agency-rumors-boston-celtics/amp/

“I’ve talked to lots of people around the Celtics and around the league about Marcus Smart. If Marcus Smart was willing to take a – let’s say Sacramento for arguments sake or another team that isn’t quite good. And they offer him $14 million a year. And the Celtics say, ‘We can’t pay you that. But we’ll pay you $12 (million).’ My question to them was will Marcus Smart take it because they’re contending, he’s a cult hero in town. Every one of them said, ‘Hell no, he’s going for the money.’ I’ve never asked him this question. But that’s the impression I get. You can’t blame young guys who want to go out to the highest bidder and thinks he should be a starter and he’s not going to be one in Boston for many years to come.”



Interesting to note, Zach Lowe disagrees (however I don't know if he has asked inside sources for opinions  or its just a hunch):
https://twitter.com/BlazersBySagar/status/998734380070678528
"Simmons: “Is Kyrie Irving on the Celtics next year?”

Lowe: “Yes.”

Simmons: “Is Terry Rozier on the Celtics next year?”

Lowe: “Yup. I think everyone’s on the Celtics next year. I think [Marcus] Smart takes his qualifying offer."

This is a misrepresentation of what Lowe said. Lowe said Smart would take his qo if no one gave him a contract offer he liked, he never said anything about Smart staying with the C's for less money. In fact, the point Lowe was making was in agreement with what Jackie Mac was saying, which is that Marcus is going to try to get as much money as possible, even if that means taking less money short term to get more money next summer.

And Marcus should get as much money as he can. No reason at all he shouldn't pick the best contract offered to him. But I'm not sure he's going to find his skills valued more anywhere else.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: hpantazo on May 23, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
Players that play as hard and reckless as Smart does with their bodies have got to take the money when they can get it. This is likely his best shot to get paid in his life, I can't blame him for prioritizing it.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Fafnir on May 23, 2018, 09:24:48 AM
Players that play as hard and reckless as Smart does with their bodies have got to take the money when they can get it. This is likely his best shot to get paid in his life, I can't blame him for prioritizing it.
Not only that if he can have a team willing to give him a realistic shot to start or have a bigger role I don't blame him for taking that either. He's not going to get that here for certain.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: dreamgreen on May 23, 2018, 09:26:26 AM
Those fans will be p---ed when they watch him go 2-7 with 5 turnovers every 5 games. Overpaying hustle guys is the biggest mistake in the NBA. Fortunately we have a smart GM that knows this and wont make that mistake.

Here he has some strong support from some of the fans (I personally am not a big fan of his) we drafted him and have fans that love the grit. But in another city watching your only free agent who you paid big money for brick shot after shot isn't going to work and I'll bet big money on that!
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Fafnir on May 23, 2018, 09:26:40 AM
I expect Boston to draft a defensive minded guard this year just in case.
I'm sure that'll be on Danny's offseason radar but our draft position is such he might need to look in FA instead.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: jambr380 on May 23, 2018, 09:41:13 AM
I expect Boston to draft a defensive minded guard this year just in case.
I'm sure that'll be on Danny's offseason radar but our draft position is such he might need to look in FA instead.

I imagine I will get blasted for this one, but Indy has a team option next season on Lance Stephenson for $4.3M - I wonder what it would take to pry him away.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: johnnygreen on May 23, 2018, 09:42:18 AM
His agent will obviously want him to take the highest bid. However, I think the opportunity to compete and be in a position to win, will be another key factor given his style of play. It is one thing to dive for loose balls and doing every other little thing, that helps his team win. However, it is something totally different if that same style of play is on a 25 win team. Over time, he would be less motivated to make those plays, which would lead to his value being severely diminished for that next contract. Also, let’s not forget that Marcus is averaging around 30 minutes a night as a backup, which may be around 3-4 minutes less than a starter. So he is basically playing starter minutes.

I heard Wyc doing an interview on the Felger and Mazz show recently. He stated that he is not concerned about paying the luxury tax, and has no issue paying any player that he feels has earned it. To me, Marcus fits that definition of someone ownership is willing to pay.

When it comes to the Smart v Rozier debate, I’m team Smart. Scoring should not be an issue next season with Irving and Hayward coming back, which is the one key attribute that Rozier has over Smart. I just think Marcus is better defensively, at running the team, has a greater impact of motivating the players around him, and has that immeasurable it factor that separates possible championship caliber teams from good teams.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Vermont Green on May 23, 2018, 09:45:51 AM
I don't agree with the narrative that Smart is going to look for a bigger role.  He has a big role with the Celtics, about 30 mins/gm the last two seasons including plenty of time in the 4th quarter.  Starting or not does not seem to worry him.  I sense that he understands and likes his role on the Celtics.

As for the money, who knows what kind of offers he will get.  Historically, players always get more than I think they should.  Sometimes those contracts look really bad in a few years, sometimes they look OK.  I don't know what teams are going to bid him up.  $14M per seems really high to me.  I just can't think who is in a position to offer that.

Maybe the offers are few and he does settle for $6,000,000 QA and rolls the dice as a UFA. in 2019. 
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: CFAN38 on May 23, 2018, 09:48:23 AM
looking at realgms march article that projects cap space the following teams are projected to have $$ to offer Smart.

ATl $29mill+

Nets $14mill+

Bulls $12mill+

Pacers $32mill+

Lakers $58mill+

76ers $22mill+

Kings $20mill+


Looking at that list,

 Lakers and 76ers are looking to catch a bigger fish and I cant see them offering to Smart

 Kings and Bulls already have their starters in the back-court.

 That leaves ATL, Pacers and the Nets as the logical threats to make an offer to Smart.

The Hawks scare me as they could look to move Schroder and then signing Smart would be the begining of a quick team culture change.

The Pacers have a team option on Lance Stephenson for only 4.3mill and he plays a similar role to Smart. I suspect they will look to spend their money else where.

The Nets could make some sense but they have good depth at PG and Wing and may look to instead take a shot on a high upside RFA like Gordon, Parker or Randle.


So my conclusion is short of a team just messing with the Cs I see the only threat of a Smart offer as coming from Atlanta. 
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Fafnir on May 23, 2018, 09:53:27 AM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Fafnir on May 23, 2018, 09:54:59 AM
I expect Boston to draft a defensive minded guard this year just in case.
I'm sure that'll be on Danny's offseason radar but our draft position is such he might need to look in FA instead.

I imagine I will get blasted for this one, but Indy has a team option next season on Lance Stephenson for $4.3M - I wonder what it would take to pry him away.
We'd have to send far too good of a draft pick or player for Stephenson. Rozier or one of the picks that has the chance to be good.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: tstorey_97 on May 23, 2018, 10:05:13 AM
Setting emotions aside, but, only for the moment...

We could compare Smart's potential deal at $14M/year with other $14M/yr players.

Middleton
Dieng
Rubio
Drew...I mean Bledsoe, etc.

Is that what Ainge is doing? He already knows what he will offer for crying out loud. Smart's agent Happy Walters carried on about Ainge passing on the extension last year.

Ainge never does anything he "doesn't have to do."

Has Smart elevated his value this year?

This may be what it is all about...Smart has not changed his value except, as the Celtics are a better team? Smart is playing like Smart in "bigger games" elevating his name on a bigger stage. Imagine the Celtics beating the Cav's and Smart gets some national games against GSW.

Back to reality. I think we can all agree that Smart on a second tier team isn't going to make them better. Smart on the Pacers (as mentioned in this thread), will make them better.

Smart is our guy. Like everyone else here, I want to pay him.

He is a key element in the locker room and he doesn't have an offensive game. Marcus Smart's valuation proposal isn't that strong and Ainge will play it to the end.


Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: smokeablount on May 23, 2018, 10:14:03 AM
Just taking a look at things from Smart's perspective, if he's being honest with himself...

He's been on this team since our roster was garbage.  Now, over maybe 12 million a year vs 9 million a year, he'd consider leaving this team to likely go somewhere much less competitive?

He isn't a typical 12m a year FA.  This Celtics team mitigates his weak shooting, and on this team his winning plays and hustle have the maximum possible effect.  It's almost a perfect fit.

He might get paid a few bucks more elsewhere, but he's the ultimate competitor, and I have to think he factors in that playing here allows him to be the best, most impactful player he can be.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: jambr380 on May 23, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
I expect Boston to draft a defensive minded guard this year just in case.
I'm sure that'll be on Danny's offseason radar but our draft position is such he might need to look in FA instead.

I imagine I will get blasted for this one, but Indy has a team option next season on Lance Stephenson for $4.3M - I wonder what it would take to pry him away.
We'd have to send far too good of a draft pick or player for Stephenson. Rozier or one of the picks that has the chance to be good.

I was thinking more along the lines of Yabusele, Nader, and our #27. Even then I hate to add in Yabusele. This would especially be a possibility if Indy targeted Smart in FA.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: mef730 on May 23, 2018, 10:58:58 AM
Just not Sacramento, not Sacramento, not Sacramento...

Mike
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Fafnir on May 23, 2018, 11:06:02 AM
I expect Boston to draft a defensive minded guard this year just in case.
I'm sure that'll be on Danny's offseason radar but our draft position is such he might need to look in FA instead.

I imagine I will get blasted for this one, but Indy has a team option next season on Lance Stephenson for $4.3M - I wonder what it would take to pry him away.
We'd have to send far too good of a draft pick or player for Stephenson. Rozier or one of the picks that has the chance to be good.

I was thinking more along the lines of Yabusele, Nader, and our #27. Even then I hate to add in Yabusele. This would especially be a possibility if Indy targeted Smart in FA.
I don't think Nader/Yabu have any value right now.

I don't think Indy would take the #27 pick for Stephenson, not unless they were looking to dump him entirely. Too valuable as a cheap one year rotation player for a team that is looking to build off their playoff run.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: SparzWizard on May 23, 2018, 11:08:42 AM
Package Smart and SAC `19 and others for KAT. Get it done Ainge.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: incoherent on May 23, 2018, 11:11:39 AM
If I am Danny... I would absolutely match any offer Smart gets for 2 obvious reasons.

1. Smart helps you win a championship next year and you cant replace him if he leaves.  This to me is a huge factor.

2. Smarts contract at say 14m/4 year will still be extremely trade-able next off season when many more teams have money AND we will have Sacromento's pick to package it.  Smarts 14 mil + a pick + filler could net us a very good player. 

Either way Danny will have options with Smart and you dont let him walk and lose those options.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on May 23, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Apparently, much like Rozier, Smart fancies himself as a starter, wants to start someplace, and get paid as much as possible. Do I think Smart gives Boston a discount? Nope, because he will never be a starter here, his offensive role is just going to diminish and so are his minutes starting next year.

If I am Danny and can snag him for $9 or maybe as high as $10 million, I sign him. If Smart signs an offer sheet at $12 million plus, you have to let him walk and grab a replacement like Grayson Allen in the draft.

was about to say we cannot overpay for a non offensive player. have to find another high energy tough guy who can play D and brings game changing intangibles to the table like smart.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: nickagneta on May 23, 2018, 11:38:15 AM
I don't agree with the narrative that Smart is going to look for a bigger role.  He has a big role with the Celtics, about 30 mins/gm the last two seasons including plenty of time in the 4th quarter.  Starting or not does not seem to worry him.  I sense that he understands and likes his role on the Celtics.

As for the money, who knows what kind of offers he will get.  Historically, players always get more than I think they should.  Sometimes those contracts look really bad in a few years, sometimes they look OK.  I don't know what teams are going to bid him up.  $14M per seems really high to me.  I just can't think who is in a position to offer that.

Maybe the offers are few and he does settle for $6,000,000 QA and rolls the dice as a UFA. in 2019.
Very true but, his role is going to change next year. The addition of Hayward and further development of Rozier could very well mean less minutes for Smart and I could easily see the team ending games the same way they start them, with Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Horford.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: green_bballers13 on May 23, 2018, 11:40:00 AM
I think Marcus is gone. Some team will feel the need to give him 30+ mpg and $10m+ per year. I think his elite defense deserves a prominent role on a team in the league, though I'm not sure he should get paid in Boston.

I've liked him since the day I saw him on a mock draft. I liked how he stayed in school, and I didn't even mind him pushing the fan at OK St. I loved the draft pick (I didn't want Randle), and have thoroughly enjoyed watching Marcus Smart in his time in green.

That being said, I don't want the Celtics to pay him as if he's a top 6 player.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on May 23, 2018, 11:44:07 AM
If I am Danny... I would absolutely match any offer Smart gets for 2 obvious reasons.

1. Smart helps you win a championship next year and you cant replace him if he leaves.  This to me is a huge factor.

2. Smarts contract at say 14m/4 year will still be extremely trade-able next off season when many more teams have money AND we will have Sacromento's pick to package it.  Smarts 14 mil + a pick + filler could net us a very good player. 

Either way Danny will have options with Smart and you dont let him walk and lose those options.

u may be right.  put him in a trade package so we get a return.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on May 23, 2018, 11:45:21 AM
I don't agree with the narrative that Smart is going to look for a bigger role.  He has a big role with the Celtics, about 30 mins/gm the last two seasons including plenty of time in the 4th quarter.  Starting or not does not seem to worry him.  I sense that he understands and likes his role on the Celtics.

As for the money, who knows what kind of offers he will get.  Historically, players always get more than I think they should.  Sometimes those contracts look really bad in a few years, sometimes they look OK.  I don't know what teams are going to bid him up.  $14M per seems really high to me.  I just can't think who is in a position to offer that.

Maybe the offers are few and he does settle for $6,000,000 QA and rolls the dice as a UFA. in 2019.
Very true but, his role is going to change next year. The addition of Hayward and further development of Rozier could very well mean less minutes for Smart and I could easily see the team ending games the same way they start them, with Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Horford.

good points as well.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2018, 11:50:09 AM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Fafnir on May 23, 2018, 11:51:05 AM
Package Smart and SAC `19 and others for KAT. Get it done Ainge.
Why not Yabu/Bird/Nader and the Memphis pick for Anthony Davis?

I like that deal better.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on May 23, 2018, 11:55:18 AM
Package Smart and SAC `19 and others for KAT. Get it done Ainge.
Why not Yabu/Bird/Nader and the Memphis pick for Anthony Davis?

I like that deal better.

lol
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 23, 2018, 12:01:00 PM
I think Marcus is gone. Some team will feel the need to give him 30+ mpg and $10m+ per year. I think his elite defense deserves a prominent role on a team in the league, though I'm not sure he should get paid in Boston.

I've liked him since the day I saw him on a mock draft. I liked how he stayed in school, and I didn't even mind him pushing the fan at OK St. I loved the draft pick (I didn't want Randle), and have thoroughly enjoyed watching Marcus Smart in his time in green.

That being said, I don't want the Celtics to pay him as if he's a top 6 player.

The question is, who? The only options that have space I can see are the Mavs, Kings, Bulls, or Hawks.

The Bulls 41 million in cap space will be tied up in their first round pick and resigning Lavine, Nwaba, and Vonleh. Besides, they already have Dunn and Lavine. Spending big on a player like Smart without having cornerstones set (and Smart is not a cornerstone) will set their roster construction back.

The Hawks have 16 million tied up in Schroeder and 18 million tied up in Bazemore. I highly doubt they would invest another 12-16 million in a non-shooter, especially considering the likelihood that their frontcourt moving forward would be Collins and Bagley (or another big). That kind of teambuilding would be broken.

The Mavs have a maximum of 23 million availabe (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 18 million). But that number goes down if they resign Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, or Mejiri. Smart is a Texas kid, but I can't see them investing 12-16 million in a non-shooter next to Smith, especially considering the money they already have invested in Matthews and Barnes.

Finally, the Kings have about 25 million in cap space (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 20 million). But that number goes down by 7 million if keep Caboclo's cap hold to try to resign him.

On top of that, there is an unusually high number of young promising players that are coming off of their rookie contracts (Gordon, Parker, Payton, Smart, Capella, Randle, Lavine, Nurkic, Hood, Hezonja). You could argue that many of those are more worthy of big RFA offers due to their upside and positional fit for those teams (Gordon, Hood, and Parker, for instance, would be a better fit on the Hawks, Bulls, Kings, or Mavs).

I just don't see anyone that the Cs are bidding against, unless it's a team that offers Smart a MLE (8.4 a year), which obviously Ainge would match.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: trickybilly on May 23, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
I think Marcus is gone. Some team will feel the need to give him 30+ mpg and $10m+ per year. I think his elite defense deserves a prominent role on a team in the league, though I'm not sure he should get paid in Boston.

I've liked him since the day I saw him on a mock draft. I liked how he stayed in school, and I didn't even mind him pushing the fan at OK St. I loved the draft pick (I didn't want Randle), and have thoroughly enjoyed watching Marcus Smart in his time in green.

That being said, I don't want the Celtics to pay him as if he's a top 6 player.

The question is, who? The only options that have space I can see are the Mavs, Kings, Bulls, or Hawks.

The Bulls 41 million in cap space will be tied up in their first round pick and resigning Lavine, Nwaba, and Vonleh. Besides, they already have Dunn and Lavine. Spending big on a player like Smart without having cornerstones set (and Smart is not a cornerstone) will set their roster construction back.

The Hawks have 16 million tied up in Schroeder and 18 million tied up in Bazemore. I highly doubt they would invest another 12-16 million in a non-shooter, especially considering the likelihood that their frontcourt moving forward would be Collins and Bagley (or another big). That kind of teambuilding would be broken.

The Mavs have a maximum of 23 million availabe (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 18 million). But that number goes down if they resign Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, or Mejiri. Smart is a Texas kid, but I can't see them investing 12-16 million in a non-shooter next to Smith, especially considering the money they already have invested in Matthews and Barnes.

Finally, the Kings have about 25 million in cap space (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 20 million). But that number goes down by 7 million if keep Caboclo's cap hold to try to resign him.

On top of that, there is an unusually high number of young promising players that are coming off of their rookie contracts (Gordon, Parker, Payton, Smart, Capella, Randle, Lavine, Nurkic, Hood, Hezonja). You could argue that many of those are more worthy of big RFA offers due to their upside and positional fit for those teams (Gordon, Hood, and Parker, for instance, would be a better fit on the Hawks, Bulls, Kings, or Mavs).

I just don't see anyone that the Cs are bidding against, unless it's a team that offers Smart a MLE (8.4 a year), which obviously Ainge would match.

Pretty much any team that a) wants to create cap space (I realize some teams will struggle), and b) wants to make the first step towards building a hard-nosed, hustle-oriented team
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 23, 2018, 12:18:30 PM
I think Marcus is gone. Some team will feel the need to give him 30+ mpg and $10m+ per year. I think his elite defense deserves a prominent role on a team in the league, though I'm not sure he should get paid in Boston.

I've liked him since the day I saw him on a mock draft. I liked how he stayed in school, and I didn't even mind him pushing the fan at OK St. I loved the draft pick (I didn't want Randle), and have thoroughly enjoyed watching Marcus Smart in his time in green.

That being said, I don't want the Celtics to pay him as if he's a top 6 player.

The question is, who? The only options that have space I can see are the Mavs, Kings, Bulls, or Hawks.

The Bulls 41 million in cap space will be tied up in their first round pick and resigning Lavine, Nwaba, and Vonleh. Besides, they already have Dunn and Lavine. Spending big on a player like Smart without having cornerstones set (and Smart is not a cornerstone) will set their roster construction back.

The Hawks have 16 million tied up in Schroeder and 18 million tied up in Bazemore. I highly doubt they would invest another 12-16 million in a non-shooter, especially considering the likelihood that their frontcourt moving forward would be Collins and Bagley (or another big). That kind of teambuilding would be broken.

The Mavs have a maximum of 23 million availabe (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 18 million). But that number goes down if they resign Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, or Mejiri. Smart is a Texas kid, but I can't see them investing 12-16 million in a non-shooter next to Smith, especially considering the money they already have invested in Matthews and Barnes.

Finally, the Kings have about 25 million in cap space (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 20 million). But that number goes down by 7 million if keep Caboclo's cap hold to try to resign him.

On top of that, there is an unusually high number of young promising players that are coming off of their rookie contracts (Gordon, Parker, Payton, Smart, Capella, Randle, Lavine, Nurkic, Hood, Hezonja). You could argue that many of those are more worthy of big RFA offers due to their upside and positional fit for those teams (Gordon, Hood, and Parker, for instance, would be a better fit on the Hawks, Bulls, Kings, or Mavs).

I just don't see anyone that the Cs are bidding against, unless it's a team that offers Smart a MLE (8.4 a year), which obviously Ainge would match.

Pretty much any team that a) wants to create cap space (I realize some teams will struggle), and b) wants to make the first step towards building a hard-nosed, hustle-oriented team

Again, who? There is this ethereal sense that "some team" will make Smart an offer. I just can't find a reasonable path where one of the 30 actually NBA teams would want to make him an offer too high for us to match.

There is just less money out there and a bunch of promising young talents. There are also better guards.

Also, most teams that would want Smart can't afford to pair him with the guards they already have on their roster due to poor shooting and floor spacing.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: droopdog7 on May 23, 2018, 12:20:47 PM
So some people think Smart should/will take less money AND play a smaller role that he might elsewhere?  That's a little too much to ask IMO. 

The offers may not be there so he may not even have the opportunity but still.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: A Future of Stevens on May 23, 2018, 01:21:47 PM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2018, 01:30:14 PM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on May 23, 2018, 01:36:09 PM
So some people think Smart should/will take less money AND play a smaller role that he might elsewhere?  That's a little too much to ask IMO. 

The offers may not be there so he may not even have the opportunity but still.
He deserves to get the best role for him and money. I am hopeful we give him a big one year offer so he can get a ring then get paid.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: celticsclay on May 23, 2018, 01:38:46 PM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

Feels like Rozier for 16 is really poor value in a trade.. this is the 16 picks since 2000. Rozier is probably at worst the 3rd best play on that list and many of them didn't ever have notable contributions.. surely they have to get more than that..

2017 Justin Patton, Creighton – Chicago Bulls
2016 Guerschon Yabusele, France – Boston Celtics
2015 Terry Rozier, Louisville – Boston Celtics
2014 Jusuf Nurkic, Bosnia – Denver Nuggets
2013 Lucas Nogueira, Brazil – Boston Celtics
2012 Royce White, Iowa St. – Houston Rockets
2011 Nikola Vucevic, USC – Philadelphia 76ers
2010 Luke Babbitt, Nevada – Minnesota Timberwolves

2000’s

2009 James Johnson, Wake Forest – Chicago Bulls
2008 Marreese Speights, Florida – Philadelphia 76ers
2007 Nick Young, Southern California – Washington Wizards
2006 Rodney Carney, Memphis – Chicago Bulls
2005 Joey Graham, Oklahoma State – Toronto Raptors
2004 Kirk Snyder, Nevada – Utah Jazz
2003 Troy Bell, Boston College – Boston Celtics
2002 Jiri Welsch, Czech Republic – Philadelphia 76ers
2001 Kirk Haston, Indiana – Charlotte Hornets
2000 Hidayet Turkoglu, Turkey – Sacramento Kings
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: A Future of Stevens on May 23, 2018, 01:41:28 PM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

I wouldn't mind that plan, if we do in fact bring back Smart. I have liked Robert Williams since last year. His athleticism is a huge plus, and while he is a hair undersized (6'9) his wingspan is enormous. He moves his feet well, and he shows decent form on his jumper. I also think he is underrated as a passer. Seems like a perfect guy to mop up minutes behind Horford.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Erik on May 23, 2018, 01:50:48 PM
I would amend it to "he's probably going for the money."

If someone offers him $15 mil or more and the C's don't match, he's gone. His type of skills will translate to any basketball team. He doesn't need Brad Stevens for heart. He's going to be the same guy anywhere that he goes.

If the best he gets is $10 mil, he'll sign with the C's (I'm sure they'll match that).

I think he's going to get a 15+ offer for sure, though.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2018, 01:52:18 PM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

Feels like Rozier for 16 is really poor value in a trade.. this is the 16 picks since 2000. Rozier is probably at worst the 3rd best play on that list and many of them didn't ever have notable contributions.. surely they have to get more than that..

2017 Justin Patton, Creighton – Chicago Bulls
2016 Guerschon Yabusele, France – Boston Celtics
2015 Terry Rozier, Louisville – Boston Celtics
2014 Jusuf Nurkic, Bosnia – Denver Nuggets
2013 Lucas Nogueira, Brazil – Boston Celtics
2012 Royce White, Iowa St. – Houston Rockets
2011 Nikola Vucevic, USC – Philadelphia 76ers
2010 Luke Babbitt, Nevada – Minnesota Timberwolves

2000’s

2009 James Johnson, Wake Forest – Chicago Bulls
2008 Marreese Speights, Florida – Philadelphia 76ers
2007 Nick Young, Southern California – Washington Wizards
2006 Rodney Carney, Memphis – Chicago Bulls
2005 Joey Graham, Oklahoma State – Toronto Raptors
2004 Kirk Snyder, Nevada – Utah Jazz
2003 Troy Bell, Boston College – Boston Celtics
2002 Jiri Welsch, Czech Republic – Philadelphia 76ers
2001 Kirk Haston, Indiana – Charlotte Hornets
2000 Hidayet Turkoglu, Turkey – Sacramento Kings
Maybe, but he only has 1 year left on his rookie contract and is pretty old for most 3 year vets.  I also think, this board has vastly over hyped Rozier (I got carried away on that as well) based on a very strong couple of week period that clearly wasn't sustainable.   

If Boston has decided it is only keeping Smart or Rozier, and Smart is the guy they want, then I don't see why they wouldn't move on from Rozier this summer when his trade value will be at its highest.  Maybe 16 by itself isn't enough, but I honestly can't see Rozier landing a top 10 pick like many seem to think is possible and I'd rather have something then see Rozier walk for nothing the following summer.  Especially if that something is a high level big man talent like Robert Williams (he has a high bust potential as well).
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: TheSundanceKid on May 23, 2018, 02:14:40 PM
Why do people think Smart's role will decrease next year?

The main beneficiary of the Hayward injury was Tatum, then Brown and to a certain extent Marcus Morris. Kyrie was healthy most of the year and Smart played as first guard off the bench. I don't see that changing this year.

Looking at the minutes spread for next year I see this:

Irving - 32
Brown - 32
Hayward - 32
Horford - 30
Theis - 20
Smart - 26
Morris - 12
Tatum - 20
Rozier - 16
Back up big - 8
Yab - 2
Semi - 10

Now clearly these can be debated, Morris and Rozier are low but you could cut Semi out of the rotation along with Yab. Equally this doesn't count for inevitable injuries that happen every year.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: KGs Knee on May 23, 2018, 02:16:05 PM
I'm just not worried about this. I don't believe Smart is going to get a big offer from anyone, maybe $12m tops, probably a good bit less. Boston should be able to match any offer I expect him to get.

Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: celticsclay on May 23, 2018, 02:17:31 PM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

Feels like Rozier for 16 is really poor value in a trade.. this is the 16 picks since 2000. Rozier is probably at worst the 3rd best play on that list and many of them didn't ever have notable contributions.. surely they have to get more than that..

2017 Justin Patton, Creighton – Chicago Bulls
2016 Guerschon Yabusele, France – Boston Celtics
2015 Terry Rozier, Louisville – Boston Celtics
2014 Jusuf Nurkic, Bosnia – Denver Nuggets
2013 Lucas Nogueira, Brazil – Boston Celtics
2012 Royce White, Iowa St. – Houston Rockets
2011 Nikola Vucevic, USC – Philadelphia 76ers
2010 Luke Babbitt, Nevada – Minnesota Timberwolves

2000’s

2009 James Johnson, Wake Forest – Chicago Bulls
2008 Marreese Speights, Florida – Philadelphia 76ers
2007 Nick Young, Southern California – Washington Wizards
2006 Rodney Carney, Memphis – Chicago Bulls
2005 Joey Graham, Oklahoma State – Toronto Raptors
2004 Kirk Snyder, Nevada – Utah Jazz
2003 Troy Bell, Boston College – Boston Celtics
2002 Jiri Welsch, Czech Republic – Philadelphia 76ers
2001 Kirk Haston, Indiana – Charlotte Hornets
2000 Hidayet Turkoglu, Turkey – Sacramento Kings
Maybe, but he only has 1 year left on his rookie contract and is pretty old for most 3 year vets.  I also think, this board has vastly over hyped Rozier (I got carried away on that as well) based on a very strong couple of week period that clearly wasn't sustainable.   

If Boston has decided it is only keeping Smart or Rozier, and Smart is the guy they want, then I don't see why they wouldn't move on from Rozier this summer when his trade value will be at its highest.  Maybe 16 by itself isn't enough, but I honestly can't see Rozier landing a top 10 pick like many seem to think is possible and I'd rather have something then see Rozier walk for nothing the following summer.  Especially if that something is a high level big man talent like Robert Williams (he has a high bust potential as well).

I just think there is a team out there that views him as a young starting point guard. Even in his 'bad' series here against the Cavs he is averaging 14 and 6 and 5. Against Philly he averaged 17-7-4.5 and against milwaukee 17-4-7 (and these are all for a team advancing to the conference finals and being competitive in them.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: JHTruth on May 23, 2018, 02:28:31 PM
Most obvious statement of all time. The way he's playing lately he might have trouble getting the required offer..
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Erik on May 23, 2018, 02:29:56 PM
Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.

You're talking about people like Andre Roberson who have no functionality in a half court set because they actually cannot shoot the ball. His FT % is something like 40%.

Smart isn't offensively limited. He just can't shoot 3 pointers at a high %. He can still run an offense, drive to the basket, pass the ball, get fouls and make his FTs, post up, etc.  He's still a heck of an old school beat em' up point guard. He has exactly ONE hole in his game. It's just a shame that he lives in the 3 ball era otherwise he'd be such a great player.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: CFAN38 on May 23, 2018, 02:32:34 PM
I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

Feels like Rozier for 16 is really poor value in a trade.. this is the 16 picks since 2000. Rozier is probably at worst the 3rd best play on that list and many of them didn't ever have notable contributions.. surely they have to get more than that..

2017 Justin Patton, Creighton – Chicago Bulls
2016 Guerschon Yabusele, France – Boston Celtics
2015 Terry Rozier, Louisville – Boston Celtics
2014 Jusuf Nurkic, Bosnia – Denver Nuggets
2013 Lucas Nogueira, Brazil – Boston Celtics
2012 Royce White, Iowa St. – Houston Rockets
2011 Nikola Vucevic, USC – Philadelphia 76ers
2010 Luke Babbitt, Nevada – Minnesota Timberwolves

2000’s

2009 James Johnson, Wake Forest – Chicago Bulls
2008 Marreese Speights, Florida – Philadelphia 76ers
2007 Nick Young, Southern California – Washington Wizards
2006 Rodney Carney, Memphis – Chicago Bulls
2005 Joey Graham, Oklahoma State – Toronto Raptors
2004 Kirk Snyder, Nevada – Utah Jazz
2003 Troy Bell, Boston College – Boston Celtics
2002 Jiri Welsch, Czech Republic – Philadelphia 76ers
2001 Kirk Haston, Indiana – Charlotte Hornets
2000 Hidayet Turkoglu, Turkey – Sacramento Kings

I would expect the Cs to receive more in a Rozier for #16 trade. I would think something like Rozier for #16, #59, Ulis, and a future 2nd and only if a play of interest is available at #16.

Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: nickagneta on May 23, 2018, 03:02:43 PM
Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.

You're talking about people like Andre Roberson who have no functionality in a half court set because they actually cannot shoot the ball. His FT % is something like 40%.

Smart isn't offensively limited. He just can't shoot 3 pointers at a high %. He can still run an offense, drive to the basket, pass the ball, get fouls and make his FTs, post up, etc.  He's still a heck of an old school beat em' up point guard. He has exactly ONE hole in his game. It's just a shame that he lives in the 3 ball era otherwise he'd be such a great player.
Smart shot a total of 36% from the field. Amongst players that played at least 1500 minutes, that was 3rd worst in the league. Smart shot a TS% of 47.9% good for 6th worst in the league for players with at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Win Shares of -0.6 is the 9th worst in the league for players playing at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Box Plus Minus was 20th worst in the league for players with 1500 minutes played. His Turnover% was 8th worst for the same criteria.

Pretty clear the stats say Smart is a horrid shooter overall, not just from 3, that turns the ball over a bunch and overall is one of the worst offensive players in the league. His shot selection is bad. He forces too many drives which ends up in turnovers, missed shots or blocked shots. He barely involves all 5 offensive players choosing to play a 3 player offense with two players hanging in the corners and over dribbles.

That to me defines offensively limited.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: jambr380 on May 23, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.

You're talking about people like Andre Roberson who have no functionality in a half court set because they actually cannot shoot the ball. His FT % is something like 40%.

Smart isn't offensively limited. He just can't shoot 3 pointers at a high %. He can still run an offense, drive to the basket, pass the ball, get fouls and make his FTs, post up, etc.  He's still a heck of an old school beat em' up point guard. He has exactly ONE hole in his game. It's just a shame that he lives in the 3 ball era otherwise he'd be such a great player.
Smart shot a total of 36% from the field. Amongst players that played at least 1500 minutes, that was 3rd worst in the league. Smart shot a TS% of 47.9% good for 6th worst in the league for players with at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Win Shares of -0.6 is the 9th worst in the league for players playing at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Box Plus Minus was 20th worst in the league for players with 1500 minutes played. His Turnover% was 8th worst for the same criteria.

Pretty clear the stats say Smart is a horrid shooter overall, not just from 3, that turns the ball over a bunch and overall is one of the worst offensive players in the league. His shot selection is bad. He forces too many drives which ends up in turnovers, missed shots or blocked shots. He barely involves all 5 offensive players choosing to play a 3 player offense with two players hanging in the corners and over dribbles.

That to me defines offensively limited.

Nick with the stats!

I was just going to respond to the part about Smart being good at driving to the basket - he might be the worst guard I have ever seen at this - but you provided solid proof of why Smart is so limited offensively.

And I am a Smart fan! I really hope we will be able to keep him, but there are a lot of reasons not to match a huge offer sheet.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: BringToughnessBack on May 23, 2018, 03:12:25 PM
Well, I would hope Smart goes for the highest payout he can get. First free agency and not a player who is suddenly going develop into an offensive shooting force although if he focused on being a facilitator on O, his worth would go even higher.

His worth as someone who can disrupt another team's plans in big games is worth a good deal of money in my opinion. I believe someone will offer him over 10M and could see a desperate losing team sign him in the hopes of changing their demeanor. For a young team stuck in the cycle of losing, he is a great person to sign to teach toughness and grit.

My guess is 52M for 4 years.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: CelticsQuestFor18 on May 23, 2018, 03:33:53 PM
After seeing Noel gambling and turning down 4/70M, I think this makes sense.

I still hope he takes a bit of a pay-cut to stay with us especially if he values a chance at competing for a championship on an annual basis. Like, if SAC or another bad team offers him 4/56M, but the C's offer around 4/48M (also in hopes to stay under the luxury tax threshold for another year), I hope Smart chooses Boston's offer.

But yeah like if he gets offered something absurd like 4 years, 70M+ from another team, then Jackie is right, he's taking the money and running away from us (sadly). We aren't giving him that for sure.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: footey on May 23, 2018, 03:37:59 PM
Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.

You're talking about people like Andre Roberson who have no functionality in a half court set because they actually cannot shoot the ball. His FT % is something like 40%.

Smart isn't offensively limited. He just can't shoot 3 pointers at a high %. He can still run an offense, drive to the basket, pass the ball, get fouls and make his FTs, post up, etc.  He's still a heck of an old school beat em' up point guard. He has exactly ONE hole in his game. It's just a shame that he lives in the 3 ball era otherwise he'd be such a great player.
Smart shot a total of 36% from the field. Amongst players that played at least 1500 minutes, that was 3rd worst in the league. Smart shot a TS% of 47.9% good for 6th worst in the league for players with at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Win Shares of -0.6 is the 9th worst in the league for players playing at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Box Plus Minus was 20th worst in the league for players with 1500 minutes played. His Turnover% was 8th worst for the same criteria.

Pretty clear the stats say Smart is a horrid shooter overall, not just from 3, that turns the ball over a bunch and overall is one of the worst offensive players in the league. His shot selection is bad. He forces too many drives which ends up in turnovers, missed shots or blocked shots. He barely involves all 5 offensive players choosing to play a 3 player offense with two players hanging in the corners and over dribbles.

That to me defines offensively limited.

Glad to see you've come around on him, Nick.  LOL
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: nickagneta on May 23, 2018, 03:47:49 PM
Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.

You're talking about people like Andre Roberson who have no functionality in a half court set because they actually cannot shoot the ball. His FT % is something like 40%.

Smart isn't offensively limited. He just can't shoot 3 pointers at a high %. He can still run an offense, drive to the basket, pass the ball, get fouls and make his FTs, post up, etc.  He's still a heck of an old school beat em' up point guard. He has exactly ONE hole in his game. It's just a shame that he lives in the 3 ball era otherwise he'd be such a great player.
Smart shot a total of 36% from the field. Amongst players that played at least 1500 minutes, that was 3rd worst in the league. Smart shot a TS% of 47.9% good for 6th worst in the league for players with at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Win Shares of -0.6 is the 9th worst in the league for players playing at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Box Plus Minus was 20th worst in the league for players with 1500 minutes played. His Turnover% was 8th worst for the same criteria.

Pretty clear the stats say Smart is a horrid shooter overall, not just from 3, that turns the ball over a bunch and overall is one of the worst offensive players in the league. His shot selection is bad. He forces too many drives which ends up in turnovers, missed shots or blocked shots. He barely involves all 5 offensive players choosing to play a 3 player offense with two players hanging in the corners and over dribbles.

That to me defines offensively limited.

Glad to see you've come around on him, Nick.  LOL
I think his intangibles are great and his defense as well. I just think those things can be replaced by a player like Brown becoming a leader and getting a defensive minded guard to replace most of his defense.

I have no problem bringing Smart back but at a price of around $9 million, which I think players like him make. If not at that price get a player like Divicenzo or Grayson Allen to replace him and make Rozier your 6th man with starter minutes.

I also have hated his offensive game. Its one of the worst in the league.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on May 23, 2018, 04:03:38 PM
I value Smart more now than I used to, but I don't think the Celtics should pay top dollar for him—he's an important role player, but he's still only a role player, and role players shouldn't be getting $15M+ per season.

And though I like what Smart brings to the table—the hustle, the clutch plays—there's an awful lot that he doesn't bring to the table, particularly for someone who plays a position where shooting shouldn't be an issue. I'm talking about his 3pt shooting, but other things as well: he shot only 37% on 2pt jumpers this season (only about 35th percentile), and only 49.5% on layups (only about the 25th percentile; old friend Kelly Olynyk led the league among regulars with 71.2%).

I'd call that "offensively limited."
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Erik on May 23, 2018, 04:16:08 PM
Is this the time that I can finally use the "stats don't tell the entire story" line that you people throw at me when I use them to prove to you that Goran Dragic is not even close to being an allstar, for example.

Marcus Smart is the prototype for a person who cannot be quantified by statistics. We all know this. We also all know what he contributes to this team on both ends of the floor.

The problem with "offensively limited" is that you're bundling him into a group of players like Roberson and MKG. If Smart is "offensively limited," so is Ben Simmons.

In a world where there are a lot of really, really bad players on $15mil/yr contracts, I'm almost positive that Smart will get one. He's certainly better than Robert Covington.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: dreamgreen on May 23, 2018, 06:38:16 PM
Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.

You're talking about people like Andre Roberson who have no functionality in a half court set because they actually cannot shoot the ball. His FT % is something like 40%.

Smart isn't offensively limited. He just can't shoot 3 pointers at a high %. He can still run an offense, drive to the basket, pass the ball, get fouls and make his FTs, post up, etc.  He's still a heck of an old school beat em' up point guard. He has exactly ONE hole in his game. It's just a shame that he lives in the 3 ball era otherwise he'd be such a great player.
Smart shot a total of 36% from the field. Amongst players that played at least 1500 minutes, that was 3rd worst in the league. Smart shot a TS% of 47.9% good for 6th worst in the league for players with at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Win Shares of -0.6 is the 9th worst in the league for players playing at least 1500 minutes. His Offensive Box Plus Minus was 20th worst in the league for players with 1500 minutes played. His Turnover% was 8th worst for the same criteria.

Pretty clear the stats say Smart is a horrid shooter overall, not just from 3, that turns the ball over a bunch and overall is one of the worst offensive players in the league. His shot selection is bad. He forces too many drives which ends up in turnovers, missed shots or blocked shots. He barely involves all 5 offensive players choosing to play a 3 player offense with two players hanging in the corners and over dribbles.

That to me defines offensively limited.

I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see someone that gets it! Thank you!
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Dino Pitino on May 23, 2018, 06:42:17 PM
I'm just not worried about this. I don't believe Smart is going to get a big offer from anyone, maybe $12m tops, probably a good bit less. Boston should be able to match any offer I expect him to get.

Teams just don't pay huge sums of money to offensively limited roles players who are guards, no matter how good they are on defense.

I agree. Is there gonna be a single team that makes the big bet that Smart can be a plus offensive player?
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Chris22 on May 23, 2018, 07:50:18 PM
I also think Smart is gone this summer.

Yes. The Celtics made their decision before the season started.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 23, 2018, 08:52:16 PM
I've asked this question before, but even if Smart gets offered good (but not crazy) money, why wouldn't we resign him, play out the next year with him and Rozier, and then decide who to keep? Unless Smart tanks we could still move him and then re-sign Rozier, if we wanted to.

Worst case scenario if Smart has a bad year or gets hurt, we'd have to attach our 1st rounder to move him. But we could still do it, and we would have had a full year with both those guys.

And people have talked about there not being enough minutes, but with Hayward and Irving coming back from major injuries, and Smart getting hurt periodically, and the other normal injury risks, I would see Rozier getting plenty of minutes even as our "4th guard."
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Neurotic Guy on May 23, 2018, 09:12:32 PM
I don't doubt he'll go for the money -- but this report is meaningless.  It's just based on random opinions -- nothing from the horses mouth. 
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on May 23, 2018, 09:19:28 PM
Anything more than $8 million per year, I think we have to let go.

He's great at what he does for us, but there's no way he's worth more than that.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: mctyson on May 24, 2018, 06:11:15 AM
I also think Smart is gone this summer.

Yes. The Celtics made their decision before the season started.

No they did not. The decision will come if when he receives an offer from another team this offseason.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 24, 2018, 06:29:56 AM
It is his livelihood and I can't blame him for going for the money.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Roy H. on May 24, 2018, 06:31:57 AM
Anything more than $8 million per year, I think we have to let go.

He's great at what he does for us, but there's no way he's worth more than that.

He’s worth less than the Mid-Level?

I disagree.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Big333223 on May 24, 2018, 07:26:10 AM
Anything more than $8 million per year, I think we have to let go.

He's great at what he does for us, but there's no way he's worth more than that.

He’s worth less than the Mid-Level?

I disagree.

Yeah, if he resigns with the Celtics it will certainly be for more than that.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Eja117 on May 27, 2018, 08:51:01 AM
Knowing he wants every cent makes me a lot more open minded to a trade for Kawhi. I would hope they could at least sign/trade for a competent player and draft pick
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: celticinorlando on May 27, 2018, 08:53:39 AM
I think Boston resigns him. They know his importance heading into their window of opportunity.

I actually do not see a lot of changes next year to the roster
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Tr1boy on May 27, 2018, 12:11:55 PM
I also think Smart is gone this summer.

Yes. The Celtics made their decision before the season started.

IF this is actually his last season as a Celt , I hope tonight is not his last day

We know he is going to bring it all

Also if this season is his last, I hope he signs with a western conference team.  Rather not play against him regularly
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: SparzWizard on May 27, 2018, 12:13:03 PM
I also think Smart is gone this summer.

Yes. The Celtics made their decision before the season started.

IF this is actually his last season as a Celt , I hope tonight is not his last day

We know he is going to bring it all

Also if this season is his last, I hope he signs with a western conference team.  Rather not play against him regularly

Hope he don't go to the Warriors OR Lakers.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: SparzWizard on May 27, 2018, 12:13:33 PM
I think Boston resigns him. They know his importance heading into their window of opportunity.

I actually do not see a lot of changes next year to the roster

So they don't wanna sell Terry Rozier to buy into that 6th man role?  :(
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Fafnir on May 27, 2018, 12:17:20 PM
I think Boston resigns him. They know his importance heading into their window of opportunity.

I actually do not see a lot of changes next year to the roster

So they don't wanna sell Terry Rozier to buy into that 6th man role?  :(
Terry is going to want to get paid at the very least. I'd be shocked if he doesn't want the chance to start as well.

The C's aren't going to be able to afford to pay one PG 30 million and another $15 million. Maybe Terry won't end up getting a contract that big but he's absolutely going to be asking for that much or more. Look at how much George Hill got this offseason.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: TheSundanceKid on May 27, 2018, 07:19:37 PM
Has anyone considered that we may resign him to use in a trade next summer? Ainge always thinks 3 moves ahead of others. People have talked about Davis or Leonard being the final trade target but it gets very expensive to match salary. Resigning Smart to a market rate deal could simply mean Ainge is loading up for a trade in 2019.

Think Smart at $13m, then the Sac pick, Yab and Brown for Davis. Not saying I do that deal but that's what it could look like.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: perks-a-beast on May 27, 2018, 07:41:12 PM
in what world is a guy who can't manage shoot above 37% in his first 4 seasons worth more than $10 million a season, regardless of how good his D is?

I like me some Smart, but he's a role player, and it usually doesn't help to overpay role players. This is the same reason Ainge didn't re-sign Posey after we won the title in 08.

sidenote: It would be tough to watch Smart on a low level team like the Suns or Kings. His special playmaking ability and hustle was meant to be watched in the playoffs when the stakes are high.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Ilikesports17 on May 27, 2018, 07:43:11 PM
in what world is a guy who can't manage shoot above 37% in his first 4 seasons worth more than $10 million a season, regardless of how good his D is?

I like me some Smart, but he's a role player, and it usually doesn't help to overpay role players. This is the same reason Ainge didn't re-sign Posey after we won the title in 08.

sidenote: It would be tough to watch Smart on a low level team like the Suns or Kings. His special playmaking ability and hustle was meant to be watched in the playoffs when the stakes are high.
You'll notice we didn't win another ring once Posey left.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: perks-a-beast on May 27, 2018, 07:46:45 PM
in what world is a guy who can't manage shoot above 37% in his first 4 seasons worth more than $10 million a season, regardless of how good his D is?

I like me some Smart, but he's a role player, and it usually doesn't help to overpay role players. This is the same reason Ainge didn't re-sign Posey after we won the title in 08.

sidenote: It would be tough to watch Smart on a low level team like the Suns or Kings. His special playmaking ability and hustle was meant to be watched in the playoffs when the stakes are high.
You'll notice we didn't win another ring once Posey left.

more of that had to do with injury than anything else. Paying Posey $6 million plus a season would have hurt the teams flexibility and may have caused Danny to have to dismantle the team sooner than he did.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 27, 2018, 07:56:32 PM
Has anyone considered that we may resign him to use in a trade next summer? Ainge always thinks 3 moves ahead of others. People have talked about Davis or Leonard being the final trade target but it gets very expensive to match salary. Resigning Smart to a market rate deal could simply mean Ainge is loading up for a trade in 2019.

Think Smart at $13m, then the Sac pick, Yab and Brown for Davis. Not saying I do that deal but that's what it could look like.

Yup.


Exactly. I feel like a lot of the Smart/Rozier talk around here is all-nothing, either we sign them long-term or let them go. But we could do lots of other things. We could re-sign Smart and trade him next summer, and then re-sign Rozier, for example.
Title: Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
Post by: Ilikesports17 on May 27, 2018, 08:21:57 PM
in what world is a guy who can't manage shoot above 37% in his first 4 seasons worth more than $10 million a season, regardless of how good his D is?

I like me some Smart, but he's a role player, and it usually doesn't help to overpay role players. This is the same reason Ainge didn't re-sign Posey after we won the title in 08.

sidenote: It would be tough to watch Smart on a low level team like the Suns or Kings. His special playmaking ability and hustle was meant to be watched in the playoffs when the stakes are high.
You'll notice we didn't win another ring once Posey left.

more of that had to do with injury than anything else. Paying Posey $6 million plus a season would have hurt the teams flexibility and may have caused Danny to have to dismantle the team sooner than he did.
Yeah, there are countless examples of teams overpaying role players and locking themselves into horrible cap situations.

Cleveland is a case study here. JR and Tristan getting contracts way too big.

That said, Cle doesn't get a ring without it. Perfect world, Wyc just pays through the nose.