Author Topic: Perpetum Rebuildere  (Read 1453 times)

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Perpetum Rebuildere
« on: September 24, 2018, 08:49:05 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Watching this Minny's "Maxy" drama, it reminds me that in the NBA some teams just can't put it together. In Europe, if you are bad you get demoted to a lower level of the competition. Poor teams are well hidden, not appearing on TV.
In the NBA when teams are bad we watch them "suffer" before our eyes for years and years. We are lucky fans, our rebuild was one of the best ever. 5 years ago we were a 25 win team. Brandon Bass led the team in win shares. Now as we are no. 2 contenders for the championship. But even if it doesn't go so well, 5-6 years is still a reasonable time span to turn things around and go for some type of playoff success afterward.

Currently, by my count, there are 5 teams that are kind of always working their way from the bottom. These are; Brooklyn, Phoenix, Minnesota, Sacramento, and Orlando. 5 out of 30, That is 1/6th of the league.

Brooklyn - they sold out draft assets, invented draft outsourcing, for us, but who cares they invented it (basically 5 good 1sts in 6 years; Lillard, J.Brown, Fultz, Sexton) for a quick contention that never happened. Now without high ceiling prospects, they are doing well (good choices for HC, GM jobs). Well for the Nets that is.
Phoenix - Since they traded Steve Nash (2012) they had their high picks but missed them left and right (Marshal-13th, Len-5th, small Ennis-18th, Chriss-8th, Bender-4th)  They bounced between the ideas of going all in for the playoffs and tanking about 5 times in 6 years. When teams don't have a plan or don't execute one they seem rudderless.
Minnesota - proud owners of the NBA's worst win% out of all 30 teams (925-1405, .397 W-L% eat the dust Clippers!) They have a 50% chance of drafting a good player with a 1st pick overall, otherwise, they fail. Last years playoff appearance was an exception that proves the rule (missed prior 13 ones). Glen Taylor can take the blame here, he is calling the shots.
Sacramento - 12 years and counting without playoffs. Poor draft choices are usually a sign of poor management, and poor management is often a sign of a poor ownership. Vlade & Vivek self-explanatory, but in case it isn't, Vlade was learning the CBA after a couple of moves he made (especially that "tricky" stretch provision in Stauskas trade) and Vivek wanted to defend 4 on 5 and attack 1 on 0.
Orlando - They can't seem to comprehend that you need a playmaker to make plays. If you have that guy you have a good chance of making a functional offense and perhaps beside him, young players could develop (Bamba, Gordon, Isaac). They draft OK, not PGs though, but they also lose players for nothing (Dipo, T. Harris). And every year since Dwight left they are looking for their lost magic.

Out of these 5 teams, when and which one plays in the playoffs the earliest?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 04:55:09 PM by Androslav »
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Perpetum Rebuildere
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2018, 09:10:53 AM »

Offline Redz

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This rebuild is indeed a bit of a miracle, but the Celtics were definitely in their own prolonged funk through the 90's and well into the 2000's (with the slight blip of success during Pierce and Walker's peak as a tandem).
Yup

Re: Perpetum Rebuildere
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2018, 01:53:17 PM »

Offline greece66

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I don't think the comparison at the beginning of the OP is fair. Demotion would not work in a closed league like the NBA.

More generally, I disagree that the issue in the NBA is bad teams; if there is an issue at all it is how to get rid of bad owners. And this is a very difficult problem to deal with in any kind of league, closed or not.

Re: Perpetum Rebuildere
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2018, 02:34:53 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Issue is bad ownership/management and just bad luck. There is a group of teams in the NBA that constantly tread mediocrity over the past decade plus. A lot of that is self inflicted.

We should be blessed to have the ownership and management structure in Boston. We are very lucky.

Re: Perpetum Rebuildere
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2018, 04:46:59 PM »

Offline Androslav

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I don't think the comparison at the beginning of the OP is fair. Demotion would not work in a closed league like the NBA.

More generally, I disagree that the issue in the NBA is bad teams; if there is an issue at all it is how to get rid of bad owners. And this is a very difficult problem to deal with in any kind of league, closed or not.
I wasn't proposing a demotion based model in the NBA, just stating the differences. Specifically regarding the lower tier teams faith in different competition. I agree that the long-term failures are owners fault, but they bought the whole thing and that's pretty much it. Except for selling the team, the only other option is a league intervention. And I am not a fan of that. In these cases the league is often in the conflict of interest. Thin Ice.
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Re: Perpetum Rebuildere
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2018, 05:27:36 PM »

Offline greece66

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I don't think the comparison at the beginning of the OP is fair. Demotion would not work in a closed league like the NBA.

More generally, I disagree that the issue in the NBA is bad teams; if there is an issue at all it is how to get rid of bad owners. And this is a very difficult problem to deal with in any kind of league, closed or not.
I wasn't proposing a demotion based model in the NBA, just stating the differences. Specifically regarding the lower tier teams faith in different competition. I agree that the long-term failures are owners fault, but they bought the whole thing and that's pretty much it. Except for selling the team, the only other option is a league intervention. And I am not a fan of that. In these cases the league is often in the conflict of interest. Thin Ice.
Fair enough.

I enjoyed reading your text, but I think you are a bit too harsh on these teams. For instance, Orlando was founded in 1989, and they have two finals appearances, that's p good  IMO.

Anyway, I understand this is a diversion from your main point, which was a question about the playoffs. If I were to take a guess, I'd say Brooklyn makes it first in 3-4 years from now.

Minnesota has the best roster of the five but is in the Western Conference (and we still have to know what happens with Butler), and Orlando has a nice player in Aaron Gordon and plays in the EC which again is an advantage, as far as playoff seeding is concerned.

Phoenix has Booker and Ayton but they ll have a tough competing with for the 8th seed in the West any time soon. And Sacramento is IMO the worst of the bunch, for the reasons you mention (GM, owner). I'm also not very high on their roster. IMO they are in the worst position of the five.

To be clear, the part on the five teams is just random thoughts and guesses, not anything I'm willing to argue in depth and I am fully aware I could very well turn out to be way wrong.