Author Topic: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green  (Read 15183 times)

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Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2009, 05:00:40 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Look, the guy saw 15-1 odds and intelligently jumped on them.

I've got no problem with the bet.  That's simply a matter of economics, although for people who believe in karma (and Simmons claims that he does), betting against your favorite team seems like the ultimate self-imposed jinx.  However, if somebody gave me 15-1 odds on the Cavs right now, I'd probably take it.  (For the record: the only team I have money on is the Celts, at 4.5-to-1).

My issue, to the extent that there is one, is Simmons continually saying "Cleveland will win the championship".  That's fine for an objective sports columnist.  It's not fine for somebody who claims to be the biggest fan in the history of Celtics sports.  I'm pretty sure that sexyscottish, or any number of Celticsbloggers out there somewhere aren't saying "You know, yeah, even though the Celtics have beaten Cleveland two out of three times this year, I think the Cavs are better."  That's not, from my experience, typical "Super Fan" behavior.  (And I differentiate between casual fans, fans, and Super Fans / those who "bleed green").

As for last year's Lakers thing, it was pretty convenient to claim "reverse jinx" only after the Celtics won.  His position all along was "I want the Celtics to win, but I think the Lakers are much better".  Only after the series did he change his tune, claiming the lame "reverse jinx" thing that so many predicted that he would fall back on.

Bill Simmons, Columnist is entitled to whatever opinion he wants.  Bill Simmons, Boston Sports Guy shouldn't be openly picking other teams two years in a row.

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Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2009, 05:03:33 PM »

Offline Carhole

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all of this over an obvoius joke. Ever since he picked the pats int he super bowl and hence ruined their perfect season he said he would never pick the home team again....

And now he is repeatedly overstating his promise that the Cavs will win it. Even if he believes it is the most likely scenario, the way that he presents it in his column is to "jinx" that most likely scenario.

Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2009, 05:11:15 PM »

Offline rondo987

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There should be a section on eBay that allows the auctioning of enticing future bets. For instance, a few weeks before the NBA season, I placed $300 on 15-to-1 odds that Cleveland would win the 2009 NBA title. Those odds have dropped to 2-to-1. Not that I would (after all, Cleveland is going to win the 2009 NBA title), but shouldn't I have the option to sell that $300 ticket on eBay? What if someone bid $1,200 on it (which would be a smart move because, again, Cleveland is going to win the NBA title) and I was guaranteed a $900 return on my investment? Should I take the money? This would be a fun Web site, you have to admit. And if eBay can't do it, then why couldn't the casinos themselves build a Web site that allows people to sell future tickets and get a second cut on the action? It all makes too much sense.

I'm assuming this is another one of Bill's "reverse jinxes"?  I know this is fairly minor, and people get way too riled up about Simmons, but I think it's disingenuous for somebody to act like Boston's Superfan #1, and then consistently talk about other teams being superior to the Celts (L.A. last year, Cleveland this year.)

as for simmon's "idea"... www.yoonew.com

Didn't Simmons also say the Lakers were going to beat the celtics in last years finals, and that the celts had no chance? Yeah, he has no credibility when it comes to predicting games. But he is an entertaining read.
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Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2009, 05:12:04 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I'll take my lickings for this next comment, but I feel like Celticsblog (as an entity) is still fighting its own inferiority complex. Personally, I get tired of commentaries and questioning of Bill Simmons' loyalty, as well as the canned rebuttals to various articles written in the Globe and/or Herald that seem to be an attempt to establish the relevancy of Celticsblog. I don't think it's necessary. Celticsblog is legit. I love it. I've followed it for however long now (4-5 years) and I'm still here. But I think Celticsblog needs to act more like the relevant player it is in the world of Celtics coverage and less like the kid brother. 

It's an interesting perspective, but it's not a motivation from my end.  Rather, like everyone else on the site, I'm a fan.  Certain things frustrate me, and I'm sure other things frustrate other members of the staff.  When we see something that irks us, we're likely to write about it.  I don't think there's any quest for legitimacy, because as you said, I think Celticsblog is fairly well established.  So, if I rant about problems with the media, it's not because of an inferiority complex.  Rather, it's because as a fan, I'm not happy with something.

This Simmons thing is a fairly minor thing, but he's marketed himself as a Boston sports icon.  That being the case, when he sets himself up for criticism, people are going to oblige.

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Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2009, 05:35:21 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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After looking at it again, he repeats it enough times that it seems pretty obvious that he's trying to rattle some cages.  Mission accomplished, I suppose.  Anyway, national columnists' opinions have exactly as much impact on what happens on the court as any of ours. 

Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2009, 05:58:01 PM »

Offline greg_kite

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He was probably trying to do the reverse jinx thing but he also had an excellent point in his analysis earlier this year.  Cleveland was the Celtics toughest opponent last year in the playoffs, right?  So they were bringing back the same team, minus Joe Smith but adding Mo Williams.  But what Simmons kept talking about was Wally's expiring contract.  They could have potentially brought in another star player and he recognized that early in the season.  What he wasn't counting on was Cleveland being awesome without even trading Wally.

Simmons is a Celtics fan, I don't see how anyone can question that.

Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2009, 06:37:23 PM »

Offline Chris

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There should be a section on eBay that allows the auctioning of enticing future bets. For instance, a few weeks before the NBA season, I placed $300 on 15-to-1 odds that Cleveland would win the 2009 NBA title. Those odds have dropped to 2-to-1. Not that I would (after all, Cleveland is going to win the 2009 NBA title), but shouldn't I have the option to sell that $300 ticket on eBay? What if someone bid $1,200 on it (which would be a smart move because, again, Cleveland is going to win the NBA title) and I was guaranteed a $900 return on my investment? Should I take the money? This would be a fun Web site, you have to admit. And if eBay can't do it, then why couldn't the casinos themselves build a Web site that allows people to sell future tickets and get a second cut on the action? It all makes too much sense.

I'm assuming this is another one of Bill's "reverse jinxes"?  I know this is fairly minor, and people get way too riled up about Simmons, but I think it's disingenuous for somebody to act like Boston's Superfan #1, and then consistently talk about other teams being superior to the Celts (L.A. last year, Cleveland this year.)

Eh, just because they are a Celtics fan doesn't mean they always have to pick the Celtics to win.  Would you have said this two years ago?  Of course not. 

To me, Bleeding Green means that you live and die with your team, but it has nothing to do with your opinion of whether other teams are better.

Now, if Simmons actually cheered for Cleveland to win in a series against the C's, because he had money on them, that would be different, but having an unbiased opinion of other teams is not a sign that he is any less of a fan. 

Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2009, 07:02:30 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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There should be a section on eBay that allows the auctioning of enticing future bets. For instance, a few weeks before the NBA season, I placed $300 on 15-to-1 odds that Cleveland would win the 2009 NBA title. Those odds have dropped to 2-to-1. Not that I would (after all, Cleveland is going to win the 2009 NBA title), but shouldn't I have the option to sell that $300 ticket on eBay? What if someone bid $1,200 on it (which would be a smart move because, again, Cleveland is going to win the NBA title) and I was guaranteed a $900 return on my investment? Should I take the money? This would be a fun Web site, you have to admit. And if eBay can't do it, then why couldn't the casinos themselves build a Web site that allows people to sell future tickets and get a second cut on the action? It all makes too much sense.

I'm assuming this is another one of Bill's "reverse jinxes"?  I know this is fairly minor, and people get way too riled up about Simmons, but I think it's disingenuous for somebody to act like Boston's Superfan #1, and then consistently talk about other teams being superior to the Celts (L.A. last year, Cleveland this year.)

Eh, just because they are a Celtics fan doesn't mean they always have to pick the Celtics to win.  Would you have said this two years ago?  Of course not. 

To me, Bleeding Green means that you live and die with your team, but it has nothing to do with your opinion of whether other teams are better.

Now, if Simmons actually cheered for Cleveland to win in a series against the C's, because he had money on them, that would be different, but having an unbiased opinion of other teams is not a sign that he is any less of a fan. 

I agree with Chris on this assessement. 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Simmons is speaking from a gambling standpoint here, not necessarily as a sports fan.  I think gambling rooting and fan rooting can be mutually exclusive except in the instance where they're in direct competition (i.e Cavs-Celtics in the playoffs). 

Simmons might not have the green shades as others but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here and take that statement as one made as a gambler and not a fan.  I'm not gonna knock him for taking the Cavs at 15-1 odds. 


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Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2009, 08:15:35 PM »

Offline jdpapa3

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I also love that this thread reminds me of getting 90-1 odds on the Celts last year before we got KG. Kinda bad that I was a broke college student at the time, but almost 2 grand is an unreal haul.

Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2009, 08:23:07 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Simmons is speaking from a gambling standpoint here, not necessarily as a sports fan.  I think gambling rooting and fan rooting can be mutually exclusive except in the instance where they're in direct competition (i.e Cavs-Celtics in the playoffs).

I don't think so.  The "Cleveland is going to win the NBA title" statements seem to go beyond just gambling.

Regardless (and on another note), this is just confirmation of what we saw last year. 

Quote from: Bill Simmons
The good news? We're one more Boston victory away from an improbable Celtics-Lakers matchup in the NBA Finals that, under normal circumstances, would have me so giddy I'd be walking around Los Angeles randomly re-enacting the McHale-Rambis clothesline on unsuspecting pedestrians.

The bad news? Nobody is beating the Lakers this season. Not Boston, not Detroit, not anybody. They have the best team, the best player and a Hall of Fame coach. It's really that simple.

Now here's where you shake your head and say, "You're just trying to do another reverse jinx like that column about how Kevin Garnett isn't clutch." Fair point. That column was written for two reasons -- because I thought it was an interesting debate (is clutchness in our DNA or do we acquire it through repetition?), and because I was aiming for a reverse jinx that partially absolved me for blowing an undefeated Patriots season four months ago. This is different. The Lakers clearly have a better team. I believed this to be true before the playoffs and haven't seen anything to change my mind; if anything, the first three rounds confirmed the chasm between the two teams was even larger than anyone believed. Even with home-court advantage in the Finals, the Celtics will still be underdogs against the Lakers. And they should be.

Then, he claimed the whole thing was a "reverse jinx", followed by:

Quote
SportsNation Bill Simmons: I'm done with the reverse jinx thing - I spent 2 days crafting that last column and sold it too convincingly, there are some people back home who actually think I'm a Lakers fan now. I had a whole master plan to make up for what I did to the Pats in January but I'm abandoning it. ...

SportsNation Bill Simmons: Anyway, I'm done with the reverse jinxing. If the Celtics lose, don't blame me.

So, at what point do we put the "reverse jinx" excuse to bed?

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Re: Bill Simmons proves, yet again, that he doesn't bleed green
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2009, 08:48:38 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Simmons is speaking from a gambling standpoint here, not necessarily as a sports fan.  I think gambling rooting and fan rooting can be mutually exclusive except in the instance where they're in direct competition (i.e Cavs-Celtics in the playoffs).

I don't think so.  The "Cleveland is going to win the NBA title" statements seem to go beyond just gambling.


Eh...I guess I'm just not seeing the issue here. I think he's saying it as a basketball observer and not as a "rooting" interest.  Given the current state of the Celtics and the question marks facing the boys in green, its not a far cry to make a claim like that. 

Like Chris said, if he's simply making an observation and prediction based on a basketball observer, I have no issue with that.  If he comes out and starts rooting for the Cavs when they're playing the Celtics, then we have an issue. 

A lot of Simmons' basketball writings in the past have been on the NBA and its players as a whole, not just the Celtics.  Obviously, we know that he grew up a Celtics fan, the whole ballboy, etc... but his ESPN stuff is more NBA as a whole oriented.

I don't think you find many people in Boston who consider him "the voice of the Boston sports fan".  I think its much more national perception.  People in Somerville, Cambridge, Dorchester, Boston, etc... don't see him as our voice.  He's a transplant now and we like the idea of a local boy with a national voice but he doesn't necessarily have the pulse of us anymore.

Even though, he's considered a "local guy" and does have those roots, I don't really see the fuss on this particular issue.  He made some gambling comments and made a proclamation of who he's thinks is going to win the '09 NBA title.


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