Author Topic: Queta: The Third Big  (Read 4299 times)

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Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2023, 08:04:40 AM »

Offline Redz

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Q looked good, hopefully he continues to do more & get more minutes

Definitely active and seemed to be in the right place a lot more frequently than his first game.  I’d think he’d shoot a higher percentages once he settles down a little too (not losing that energy, but just being less nervous with it maybe).
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Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2023, 08:17:21 AM »

Online celticinorlando

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Luke is putrid. He cannot catch the ball...gets beat constantly for boards and teams go right at him when he is playing defense. He is slow, heavy footed and really not worthy of playing any role on this team.

Queta at least can move. And his motor is already better than Kornet's.

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2023, 09:46:17 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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My expectations for Queta are not that high.  I feel like he can be a useful enough deep bench guy but like Kornet, he probably does not have the ability to be a 3rd big on a good team.  Because the Celtics play so much with one big and an extra guard, the role of the 3rd big on the team isn't as impactful as it would normally be.

Queta does provide a different type of game as compared to Kornet but I am not convinced that he is a better overall player than Kornet.  I am not as down on Kornet as some seem to be.  Kornet has been a decent fill-in player, even if it isn't pretty at times.

I see it as more likely that Brissett figures things out and carves out a regular rotation role with the team as the 3rd big/swing than Queta does.  Love having Queta on the team as a 2-way, great use of that slot.  He can help some and has some ceiling, exactly what you hope for with a 2-way.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 09:54:50 AM by Vermont Green »

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2023, 11:54:27 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Ya he's fine. Kornet is also fine. The bigs are what they are. When you have 4 guys making 30+ million your third big is going to be some low salary filler type.

Queta did what you wanted him to do, ideally in he future he'll make more around the basket.

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2023, 12:23:09 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Still significantly behind Kornet IMO

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2023, 12:31:57 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Kornet confuses me from game to game.  Sometimes he looks like an adequate rotation player, taking feeds from our playmakers and disrupting the other team on defense with his size.  Other games, he's got stone hands and is as defensively apt as a very large traffic cone.

I like that he plays with effort every night.  I'm just puzzled that Brad hasn't upgraded the position over the past two seasons.

I'm not sure if Queta is the answer, but in his second game he did something that Kornet has never done in green:  grabbed 10 rebounds.


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Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2023, 03:06:28 PM »

Online wdleehi

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Hopefully the two are different enough that they both fit different needs in terms of matchups.   

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2023, 03:43:51 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Kornet confuses me from game to game.  Sometimes he looks like an adequate rotation player, taking feeds from our playmakers and disrupting the other team on defense with his size.  Other games, he's got stone hands and is as defensively apt as a very large traffic cone.

I like that he plays with effort every night.  I'm just puzzled that Brad hasn't upgraded the position over the past two seasons.

I'm not sure if Queta is the answer, but in his second game he did something that Kornet has never done in green:  grabbed 10 rebounds.

I think Kornet knows what he is supposed to do, he just often isn't able to physically do it. With his understanding of the game and solid vibes, he would probably make a good coach, but I'm ready to move on from him or at least move him to the very back end of the rotation.

As for Queta, I know it's a small sample size (including preseason), but I've never not seen him have an impact out there. Our 3rd big needs to be able to rebound at an above average rate and be a tough defender since we are lacking that on our roster. Hopefully we'll see more of him out there.

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2023, 04:37:51 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Kornet confuses me from game to game.  Sometimes he looks like an adequate rotation player, taking feeds from our playmakers and disrupting the other team on defense with his size.  Other games, he's got stone hands and is as defensively apt as a very large traffic cone.

I like that he plays with effort every night.  I'm just puzzled that Brad hasn't upgraded the position over the past two seasons.

I'm not sure if Queta is the answer, but in his second game he did something that Kornet has never done in green:  grabbed 10 rebounds.

I think Kornet knows what he is supposed to do, he just often isn't able to physically do it. With his understanding of the game and solid vibes, he would probably make a good coach, but I'm ready to move on from him or at least move him to the very back end of the rotation.

As for Queta, I know it's a small sample size (including preseason), but I've never not seen him have an impact out there. Our 3rd big needs to be able to rebound at an above average rate and be a tough defender since we are lacking that on our roster. Hopefully we'll see more of him out there.

This part I agree with.  Queta is the right type of player to be in the rotation with Porzingis and Horford.  A long, tough, defensive minded big is exactly what is needed.  Kornet is not that.  His role is better as a fill in when Porzingis is hurt or Horford is resting.  He can fit in and allow the team to play the same style of game.

But I am not sure Queta is good enough.  Maybe.

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2023, 08:52:23 PM »

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Kornet confuses me from game to game.  Sometimes he looks like an adequate rotation player, taking feeds from our playmakers and disrupting the other team on defense with his size.  Other games, he's got stone hands and is as defensively apt as a very large traffic cone.

I like that he plays with effort every night.  I'm just puzzled that Brad hasn't upgraded the position over the past two seasons.

I'm not sure if Queta is the answer, but in his second game he did something that Kornet has never done in green:  grabbed 10 rebounds.

I think Kornet knows what he is supposed to do, he just often isn't able to physically do it. With his understanding of the game and solid vibes, he would probably make a good coach, but I'm ready to move on from him or at least move him to the very back end of the rotation.

As for Queta, I know it's a small sample size (including preseason), but I've never not seen him have an impact out there. Our 3rd big needs to be able to rebound at an above average rate and be a tough defender since we are lacking that on our roster. Hopefully we'll see more of him out there.

This part I agree with.  Queta is the right type of player to be in the rotation with Porzingis and Horford.  A long, tough, defensive minded big is exactly what is needed.  Kornet is not that.  His role is better as a fill in when Porzingis is hurt or Horford is resting.  He can fit in and allow the team to play the same style of game.

But I am not sure Queta is good enough.  Maybe.

Agreed. That is why I liked Biyombo as an offseason addition for this Celtics team so much.

Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2023, 09:30:43 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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When I say Kornet is terrible at grabbing defensive rebounds, this is what I mean.

Doesn’t mean that it sums up Kornets whole existence. He can be useful. But to all the posters who post “SEE?” When Kornet grabs 3 defensive rebounds in 19 minutes as if that’s good, this is some helpful context.
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Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2023, 09:40:56 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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I posted this graphic in the game thread in response to a question about our offensive rebounding as a team, and in doing so I noticed that for all the stick Kornet gets here about his rebounding, etc. his numbers in relation to others in his position aren't as bad as I thought they would be. This isn't a post to say that Luke is actually the second coming of Shaq, I just found it interesting that for all the hate he gets he is actually in the 48th percentile of centers when it comes to making offensive rebounds, and in the 43rd percentile in terms of defensive rebounds.



In context, that 48th percentile for offensive rebounds is a higher ranking than Aaron Gordon, Nikola Vucevic or Precious Achiewa:



And the 43rd percentile for defensive rebounds is higher than Gallo, Ojongwu or his teammate Al Horford:



Worse that the median for sure but acceptable I guess for a third string center? Especially when you look at him being in the top 25% of centers in terms of blocks. We all know Joe Mazz is a stats nerd, maybe that's why he keeps Luke around  :police:

And yes, you can add asterisks to any stat, it's possible that Luke just happens to be on the court when there are terrible rebounders on the other team, while the other guys are going up against tougher rebounders, but you would expect all that to smooth out over the course of a season so it will be interesting to see where he ends up. Then you add the fact that he's costing the team $2m, I can see why Brad and Joe might see value in him. Once Queta gets more reps we'll see where he falls in terms of his relative production.

Why does it matter if he’s better at offensive rebounding than Gordon, Vooch or Precious?

Previous is 6’8”, half a foot shorter than Luke and has a .271 3 point rate. Gordon us 6’8” and has a .200 3pr. Vooch is 4 inches shorter and has. .231 3pr.

Kornet is 7’2” with a 3pr of .000. He is never by the 3 point line and always by the rim. You are comparing giant apples to little oranges.

Outrebounding some hand picked power forward types under 6’11” doesn’t mean much. Are these guys playing drop coverage at the center position for their team, always within 5 feet of the rim?
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Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2023, 09:13:10 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Luke doing his job on the offensive glass tonight, where he does have some ability. Good job Luke!
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Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2023, 02:51:28 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I posted this graphic in the game thread in response to a question about our offensive rebounding as a team, and in doing so I noticed that for all the stick Kornet gets here about his rebounding, etc. his numbers in relation to others in his position aren't as bad as I thought they would be. This isn't a post to say that Luke is actually the second coming of Shaq, I just found it interesting that for all the hate he gets he is actually in the 48th percentile of centers when it comes to making offensive rebounds, and in the 43rd percentile in terms of defensive rebounds.



In context, that 48th percentile for offensive rebounds is a higher ranking than Aaron Gordon, Nikola Vucevic or Precious Achiewa:



And the 43rd percentile for defensive rebounds is higher than Gallo, Ojongwu or his teammate Al Horford:



Worse that the median for sure but acceptable I guess for a third string center? Especially when you look at him being in the top 25% of centers in terms of blocks. We all know Joe Mazz is a stats nerd, maybe that's why he keeps Luke around  :police:

And yes, you can add asterisks to any stat, it's possible that Luke just happens to be on the court when there are terrible rebounders on the other team, while the other guys are going up against tougher rebounders, but you would expect all that to smooth out over the course of a season so it will be interesting to see where he ends up. Then you add the fact that he's costing the team $2m, I can see why Brad and Joe might see value in him. Once Queta gets more reps we'll see where he falls in terms of his relative production.

Why does it matter if he’s better at offensive rebounding than Gordon, Vooch or Precious?

Previous is 6’8”, half a foot shorter than Luke and has a .271 3 point rate. Gordon us 6’8” and has a .200 3pr. Vooch is 4 inches shorter and has. .231 3pr.

Kornet is 7’2” with a 3pr of .000. He is never by the 3 point line and always by the rim. You are comparing giant apples to little oranges.

Outrebounding some hand picked power forward types under 6’11” doesn’t mean much. Are these guys playing drop coverage at the center position for their team, always within 5 feet of the rim?

Just to clarify, I'm not cherrypicking anything. Those percentile stats by Cleaning the Glass use game data to rank every player in a number of categories, from highest to lowest, filtered by position. The position groupings they use are as follows:



So by that criteria Luke is classified as a big. Then it's just ranking them by the ORfg%, which is the percentage of missed field goals by his team that the player rebounded. Below is the top 20 in that list (the players in the 78th to 100th percentile of bigs). All the usual suspects up there.



Then if you look to see where Luke is, in the 48th percentile:



Those names - Aaron, Vuc and Precious - just happened to the the players immediately after him in the rankings. In the interest of space I didn't publish the entire ranking but here it is above.

Unfortunately the website doesn't allow me to filter by height or whether the competitive set is a stretch big that sits on the perimeter more often than not - those are all part of the "asterisks" that I mentioned initially. Being able to filter by those to narrow down the comparison to those players who play exactly like Luke does, would give us a better idea of where he truly sits. I'm sure a premium subscription would unlock those filters for use, and I'm sure each individual team has access to that level of detail via Second Spectrum data but that costs thousands of dollars a month that I unfortunately can't justify as a hobby  :laugh:

Once Queta and Stevens have enough data of their own to be included in these rankings I will be curious to see whether the actual data supports the eye test.
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Re: Queta: The Third Big
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2023, 11:42:23 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Queta is a rebounding machine… I’m hoping that as he gets more comfortable with the offense and defensive schemes, he will take Kornet’s minutes. Luke doesn’t do anything particularly well, but he knows the plays and doesn’t make many mistakes.

Kornet per 36: 11.7pts/9.2rebs

Queta per 36: 13.7pts/19.7rebs (not a typo)


Nemias also gives the C’s a physical presence down low on defense. Looking forward to seeing how he progresses.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2023, 11:57:01 AM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.