Poll

Initial Reaction: Grade The Trade!

A+
40 (21.2%)
A / A-
37 (19.6%)
B+
28 (14.8%)
B / B-
24 (12.7%)
C+
9 (4.8%)
C / C-
15 (7.9%)
D+
6 (3.2%)
D / D-
6 (3.2%)
F
9 (4.8%)
Incomplete (I Just Can't Give It A Grade Yet)
15 (7.9%)

Total Members Voted: 187

Author Topic: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade  (Read 59040 times)

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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #330 on: December 03, 2018, 08:01:32 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Yes, hindsight has not treated the deal well at all from Cleveland's perspective.  Basically, they got the worst case scenario:  the Brooklyn pick fell to mid-lottery, Crowder was very poor in Cleveland, and IT never recovered to a starter-level (or even rotation-level, at this point.)



I just want to say, as an aside, not that this is news -- it's so sad how things have worked out for Isaiah. 

His 2016-2017 was one of the most fun and enjoyable individual player seasons I've seen, and we got to watch it one a nightly basis with the player in question wearing our preferred colors.

Did not seem possible to me back then that a single non-catastophric injury could derail him this completely, i.e. he goes from being a league leader in scoring and the most important offensive player on a Conference Finalist to a guy that is struggling to get healthy enough to get minutes as a backup.


I'm really hoping Isaiah can make it back and at least become a J.J. Barea type sparkplug for somebody again.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #331 on: February 13, 2019, 09:58:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Time to put in my final grade. Since it appears that this trade boiled down to:

Kyrie Irving for
#24 pick (Cleveland traded this to get Clarkson)

#8 pick
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
George Hill
#56 2nd round pick

Then there's no question that's a "A". Ainge wins again. From a returns standpoint that's an insane trade.

It's no secret that I wasn't overjoyed with the deal. I didn't hate it and I understood it but I wasn't exceptionally pleased with it. Some people misinterpret this as being an IT homer. I understood why it made sense to ship him off (even before we knew the extent of his injury). It's because I had, and still have, serious reservations about Irving's true value. I don't value him nearly as highly as others here. There's an argument to be made that he's not even the best PG on this team. He'll outscore and outshoot Rozier and neither is a particularly good passer; but Terry is a far better rebound and miles better on the defensive end. If Rozier is as good as these playoffs suggest then that's a much closer battle than some will admit. Kyrie is a big name but I don't think he plays like a superstar. I don't think he showed much growth with his game this year either.

However, Irving has far more value then anything else we gave away. IT appears to be broken. Crowder looks like a (valuable) bench contributor for Utah. The pick ended up being worse than most of us expected. Meanwhile, if we wanted to pair Irving with a pick we could swing a deal for another superstar (Leonard? Cousins?). Meanwhile, even if we keep Irving the value is far higher for this team than what we ultimately disposed of.

So yeah, this was ultimately a deal that really hurt the Cs biggest competitor and didn't hurt the Celtics at all. That's an A in my book.
So if we keep adjusting this trade do we have to include the Cavs moves around the deadline this year.

Hood for Stauskas, Baldwin, and 2 2nd's.  Then 2 days later traded Stauskas, Baldwin, Burks, and 1 2nd for Knight, Chriss, HOU 1st, and a 2nd.  Then re-sign Stauskas after he is waived (since he kept getting traded).

Hill, Dekker, and a 2nd for Dellavedova, Henson, MIL 1st, and 2 2nd's.

So new trade

Kyrie Irving
#24 pick (Cleveland traded this to get Clarkson)
Rose
Shumpert
Burks
Dekker

#8 pick
2021 Milwaukee 1st (protected but likely to transfer before it becomes 2nd's in '24 and '25)
2019 Houston 1st
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
Chriss
Knight
Delly
Henson
Stauskas
#56 2nd round pick
2 future 2nd's

So the Cavs were able to use remnants from the trade (Hill and Hood) along with Burks (who they got with 2 2nd's for Korver) to pick up 2 more 1st round picks, a 3rd year lottery pick (Chriss), a recent lottery pick (Stauskas), some decent bench veterans (Delly/Henson).

Overall the Cavs haul is getting bigger.  Trade still comes down to whether or not Irving re-signs in my mind. 
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #332 on: February 14, 2019, 04:58:19 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Time to put in my final grade. Since it appears that this trade boiled down to:

Kyrie Irving for
#24 pick (Cleveland traded this to get Clarkson)

#8 pick
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
George Hill
#56 2nd round pick

Then there's no question that's a "A". Ainge wins again. From a returns standpoint that's an insane trade.

It's no secret that I wasn't overjoyed with the deal. I didn't hate it and I understood it but I wasn't exceptionally pleased with it. Some people misinterpret this as being an IT homer. I understood why it made sense to ship him off (even before we knew the extent of his injury). It's because I had, and still have, serious reservations about Irving's true value. I don't value him nearly as highly as others here. There's an argument to be made that he's not even the best PG on this team. He'll outscore and outshoot Rozier and neither is a particularly good passer; but Terry is a far better rebound and miles better on the defensive end. If Rozier is as good as these playoffs suggest then that's a much closer battle than some will admit. Kyrie is a big name but I don't think he plays like a superstar. I don't think he showed much growth with his game this year either.

However, Irving has far more value then anything else we gave away. IT appears to be broken. Crowder looks like a (valuable) bench contributor for Utah. The pick ended up being worse than most of us expected. Meanwhile, if we wanted to pair Irving with a pick we could swing a deal for another superstar (Leonard? Cousins?). Meanwhile, even if we keep Irving the value is far higher for this team than what we ultimately disposed of.

So yeah, this was ultimately a deal that really hurt the Cs biggest competitor and didn't hurt the Celtics at all. That's an A in my book.
So if we keep adjusting this trade do we have to include the Cavs moves around the deadline this year.

Hood for Stauskas, Baldwin, and 2 2nd's.  Then 2 days later traded Stauskas, Baldwin, Burks, and 1 2nd for Knight, Chriss, HOU 1st, and a 2nd.  Then re-sign Stauskas after he is waived (since he kept getting traded).

Hill, Dekker, and a 2nd for Dellavedova, Henson, MIL 1st, and 2 2nd's.

So new trade

Kyrie Irving
#24 pick (Cleveland traded this to get Clarkson)
Rose
Shumpert
Burks
Dekker

#8 pick
2021 Milwaukee 1st (protected but likely to transfer before it becomes 2nd's in '24 and '25)
2019 Houston 1st
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
Chriss
Knight
Delly
Henson
Stauskas
#56 2nd round pick
2 future 2nd's

So the Cavs were able to use remnants from the trade (Hill and Hood) along with Burks (who they got with 2 2nd's for Korver) to pick up 2 more 1st round picks, a 3rd year lottery pick (Chriss), a recent lottery pick (Stauskas), some decent bench veterans (Delly/Henson).

Overall the Cavs haul is getting bigger.  Trade still comes down to whether or not Irving re-signs in my mind.

There is no logic to this.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #333 on: June 29, 2019, 11:11:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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So now that is pretty apparent that Irving is leaving.  Has your grade on the trade changed?
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #334 on: June 29, 2019, 11:15:40 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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So now that is pretty apparent that Irving is leaving.  Has your grade on the trade changed?

We traded Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Collin Sexton, Ante Zizic, and 2nd rounder for Kemba Walker.

Not bad at all.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #335 on: June 29, 2019, 11:20:11 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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So now that is pretty apparent that Irving is leaving.  Has your grade on the trade changed?
nope.  still do that trade.  corpse of IT, journeyman Crowder, unknown Zizic and Brooklyn pick (Sexton) for 2 years of Kyrie.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #336 on: June 29, 2019, 11:20:39 PM »

Offline gpap

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So now that is pretty apparent that Irving is leaving.  Has your grade on the trade changed?

My thoughts haven't changed.

It was the right move at the time. Some trades work, some don't.

It was the right trade but the player had the wrong attitude.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #337 on: June 29, 2019, 11:21:50 PM »

Offline gpap

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So now that is pretty apparent that Irving is leaving.  Has your grade on the trade changed?
nope.  still do that trade.  corpse of IT, journeyman Crowder, unknown Zizic and Brooklyn pick (Sexton) for 2 years of Kyrie.

Totally agree. If Kyrie had found success here and led the Celts to the finals like he was capable, this would've gone down as the steal of the century.

Imagine Hayward and Kyrie don't get injured in year 1. Imagine there's no Rose Rule, and Ainge trades for AD last season.
We could be talking about two consecutive trips to the finals.

It just didn't work out

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #338 on: June 29, 2019, 11:25:09 PM »

Offline Moranis

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So now that is pretty apparent that Irving is leaving.  Has your grade on the trade changed?

My thoughts haven't changed.

It was the right move at the time. Some trades work, some don't.

It was the right trade but the player had the wrong attitude.
his attitude issues were known at the time.  heck the mere fact he wanted out of a team that had been to 3 straight finals was questionable at best.

I gave the trade a C at the time.  When IT's greater injury issues became apparent, I moved it to a B+, but with Irving bolting and especially under the circumstances and how the season went, I think I'm now back to my original grade of a C.  Losing a top tier pick really hurts, especially after the Kings pick didn't hit, leaving the team with only 2 high end players.  I also think Irving being here detrimentally affected not only Rozier, but some of the other young players that are now left on the team.  That said, Irving clearly was far and away the best player in the trade, he just wasn't a good enough player to really matter where it counts.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #339 on: June 29, 2019, 11:27:09 PM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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So now that is pretty apparent that Irving is leaving.  Has your grade on the trade changed?

We traded Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Collin Sexton, Ante Zizic, and 2nd rounder for Kemba Walker.

Not bad at all.

It is essentially impossible to gauge who Celtics would have picked at the spot but I am pretty sure Ainge wouldn't have chosen Sexton. Given that Ainge knew Irving had many personal 'quirks' he took a chance thinking it could have been situational and was part of a bigger play in getting Davis, it was definitely worth the risk but I do think what could have been if we picked up Huerter or SGA with our main core intact and a fully healthy Hayward...what could have been

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #340 on: June 29, 2019, 11:28:55 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Initially gave it a B+, but given how IT and Crowder have panned out, I would give it a higher grade. An A from DA, imo
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #341 on: June 30, 2019, 12:12:01 AM »

Online ozgod

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Ultimately didn't work out but I would still have done it. You have to take risks sometimes and we ultimately didn't pay that much for this one, other than the missed opportunities with him here.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #342 on: July 16, 2019, 08:52:24 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Now that it's all said and done, what do you guys think about the trade?

Should we have traded IT + Crowder + Zizic + Brooklyn 2018 unprotected first + Miami 2020 second for Kyrie?

Which team won the trade?

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #343 on: July 16, 2019, 09:00:45 AM »

Offline td450

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The great mistake was to believe we didn't have to choose, that we could just keep collecting assets and not worry about who was going to get to play. It worked fine until we hit a certain talent density, and then it fell apart.

We should have decided to load up young. We should have SGA or Wendell Carter. We should have let IT go and traded Crowder for whatever.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #344 on: July 16, 2019, 10:01:27 AM »

Offline footey

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I originally gave the trade a B+.  Now that Kyrie is gone, I give it a B-.

One thing I'm starting to wonder, though: would we have made Eastern Conf finals in 2018 if we never made the trade? And would Al Horford still be here?