Author Topic: One Third of Season In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)  (Read 9719 times)

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Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2019, 01:44:40 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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What's nice about our situation this year is that we have lots of young players that will continue to get better throughout the year.  So, the product you see out there come playoff time has a chance to be a lot better with improvement from:

* Tatum
* Brown
* Timelord
* Grant
* Carson
* Romeo (Not counting on this but you never know)

Additionally, we can expect to see a buyout/trade deadline move to bolster the bench for the playoffs.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2019, 01:57:03 PM »

Offline Birdman

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They have surprise me..what a difference Walker makes..had him instead of Kyrie last 2 seasons, we probably won a title along with Al and Morris..but bench is a great concern of mine
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2019, 03:03:36 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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What's nice about our situation this year is that we have lots of young players that will continue to get better throughout the year.  So, the product you see out there come playoff time has a chance to be a lot better with improvement from:

* Tatum
* Brown
* Timelord
* Grant
* Carson
* Romeo (Not counting on this but you never know)

Additionally, we can expect to see a buyout/trade deadline move to bolster the bench for the playoffs.
Improvement of the team as whole, learning to play with each other, yes.  Individual improvement, um, no I doubt it.

Tatum and Brown have already taken their leap this season, IMO.  The rookies are not getting better in a way that significantly improves the team for the playoffs.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2019, 03:18:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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What's nice about our situation this year is that we have lots of young players that will continue to get better throughout the year.  So, the product you see out there come playoff time has a chance to be a lot better with improvement from:

* Tatum
* Brown
* Timelord
* Grant
* Carson
* Romeo (Not counting on this but you never know)

Additionally, we can expect to see a buyout/trade deadline move to bolster the bench for the playoffs.
Improvement of the team as whole, learning to play with each other, yes.  Individual improvement, um, no I doubt it.

Tatum and Brown have already taken their leap this season, IMO.  The rookies are not getting better in a way that significantly improves the team for the playoffs.
Oh, I don't know about that. Brown has clearly shown in his time on the club that he gets better and grows his game during the year. So it is possible for the other players.

Also, if all these guys do is improve their shooting percentages and become more consistent in their games, whether on offense or defense, that will greatly help the team. Just those two things would go a long way to help this team get better.

Think how much better the team would be if Brown continues to grow his mid range game and starts hitting FTs at 75-80% for the rest of the year. Or if Tatum starts finishing and hitting threes like he did the first two years in the league. Or if Grant Williams starts hitting threes. Or if Edwards starts to consistently hit his threes in the 36-40% range. Or if Timelord starts to make way less defensive mistakes. Just those things would be huge for this team

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2019, 03:25:56 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I'm loving Brown's improvement this year.  He's improved far more than I could have hoped for.

Is it just me or does he also look much more jacked?  I haven't seen or read anything about that.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2019, 03:27:26 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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A second-tier but legitimate championship contender is as good as anyone could've hoped for, and that's our profile right now.

As others have noted we've been doing this despite a road-heavy schedule including one of the 2 big West trips, games against the best East competition (which fortunately have almost all been at home), and substantial injury problems. We haven't been blown out once and only the season opener was even out of reach in crunch time. Our defense is helping our offense through rough patches and we have enough different offensive weapons, both for scoring and for ballhandling, that we're hard to gameplan for. The 3 big wings are a tremendous asset in a wing-dominated era, and Kemba is an excellent PG as well. And of course Smart gluing it all together and actually hitting shots before his nagging injuries started to catch up with him.

My biggest concern is the bench is thin, and gets really thin when more than one of our top 5 guys are out. Scoring is a particular concern from that bunch, as is backcourt size and playmaking. But those guys have generally done an admirable job of their limited roles, and the bench is a lot less important in the playoffs. The obvious hole at the 5 has not been a glaring weakness so far either, and we're as good at 1-4 as anyone.

Really enjoying the season so far, and excited to see how it plays out.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 04:01:06 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2019, 04:39:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I'm loving Brown's improvement this year.  He's improved far more than I could have hoped for.

Is it just me or does he also look much more jacked?  I haven't seen or read anything about that.
Jaylen definitely looks like he put on some upper body man muscle since last year.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2019, 04:39:54 PM »

Offline td450

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I would expect us to improve considerably.

The team's shooting hasn't been all that great. Tatum's numbers should improve considerably, and I hope Smart's numbers go up some too. The only player who is likely shooting above their normal level is Wanamaker.

We've also weathered a lot of injury time. Our roster is very young. We aren't 15-5 because we've been lucky. It should be all upside from here.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2019, 05:16:50 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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In reviewing all of the team's numbers, what is striking to me is how wrong the "general consensus" about the Celtics is, i.e. that the main piece that they need in order to be more of a clear-cut contender is an upgrade at the center position.

Yes, the Celts could stand to be better on the defensive glass. 

However, the Celts are plenty good enough defensively to contend.  If the Celts have an achilles heel, I would say that it's their overall mediocre shooting.  The Celts have shown a propensity for going cold for long stretches.  If they run into an opponent that is hot from outside at the same time that their shooting has gone cold, the Celts can fall behind pretty quickly.


Other than turning one of the top guys on the team into a top 10 player (which is obviously not possible), I think the most obvious way to upgrade the team would be to add more reliable shooting on the bench, ideally without compromising the team defensively (i.e. no thanks to Kyle Korver) or upsetting the offensive balance (i.e. don't add anyone who expects to take a lot of shots).


Swap out Edward and Grant / Semi for a couple veterans who can really shoot it and also defend hard without needing to touch the ball very often and the Celts would probably be about as good as they can be without having a top 10 player.


WITH THAT SAID -- historically we know that a team like the Celts, i.e. one without a clear cut top 10-15 player, probably doesn't have a real shot at winning a title in a field that has several teams featuring multiple Hall of Fame talents.  So I wouldn't give up any future assets just to increase the odds that the Celts make it to the ECF.
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Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2019, 06:07:01 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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I'm not sure what's more surprising: that they're 9th in offense or that they're 6th in defense.

Neither seem too flukey either, at least by the eye test.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2019, 06:51:13 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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The Celtics are 15-5, and they've had Kemba, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown at full strength for 3.5 games. As long as they don't have any more fluke injuries that will put guys out for an extended period, I love where this season is headed.

I'm with Pho in saying that the bench needs a shooter who won't hurt the defense. The most ideal guys that come to mind - and this is banking on them getting waived - would be Courtney Lee or Allen Crabbe. Pure shooters who on paper won't hurt on the other end.

Brad already has plenty of capable playmakers on the team with their four best players plus Smart and Wanamaker. He even has another competent scorer in the second unit with Kanter. There's no need to add another pure scorer on top of that because odds are he'll just take touches away from the other guys. Didn't we see what happened last year when there were too many scorers on this team?

It's been a complete 180 since last year's disaster, and I'm loving every second of it.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2019, 06:51:43 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm not sure what's more surprising: that they're 9th in offense or that they're 6th in defense.

Neither seem too flukey either, at least by the eye test.

I'm most surprised by the defense.

I did not think it was possible that they could remain an elite defensive team without Al Horford.  He seemed so vital to everything they did on that end.

Guess Brad Stevens (and Smart) deserve more credit for the system and the focus / energy the team brings on a consistent basis.
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Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2019, 07:15:36 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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What's nice about our situation this year is that we have lots of young players that will continue to get better throughout the year.  So, the product you see out there come playoff time has a chance to be a lot better with improvement from:

* Tatum
* Brown
* Timelord
* Grant
* Carson
* Romeo (Not counting on this but you never know)

Additionally, we can expect to see a buyout/trade deadline move to bolster the bench for the playoffs.
Improvement of the team as whole, learning to play with each other, yes.  Individual improvement, um, no I doubt it.

Tatum and Brown have already taken their leap this season, IMO.  The rookies are not getting better in a way that significantly improves the team for the playoffs.
Oh, I don't know about that. Brown has clearly shown in his time on the club that he gets better and grows his game during the year. So it is possible for the other players.

Also, if all these guys do is improve their shooting percentages and become more consistent in their games, whether on offense or defense, that will greatly help the team. Just those two things would go a long way to help this team get better.

Think how much better the team would be if Brown continues to grow his mid range game and starts hitting FTs at 75-80% for the rest of the year. Or if Tatum starts finishing and hitting threes like he did the first two years in the league. Or if Grant Williams starts hitting threes. Or if Edwards starts to consistently hit his threes in the 36-40% range. Or if Timelord starts to make way less defensive mistakes. Just those things would be huge for this team
True, but I doubt there will be significant further improvement this season.  We have already seen A LOT of improvement over last year in Brown, Tatum, Hayward and RWIII.  How much more individual improvement is realistic?

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2019, 07:53:39 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I did not think it was possible that they could remain an elite defensive team without Al Horford.  He seemed so vital to everything they did on that end.

Guess Brad Stevens (and Smart) deserve more credit for the system and the focus / energy the team brings on a consistent basis.

It helps having athletic guys too, for years we didn't but we have improved a lot in this area.   Athletic guys can play bigger because they can jump and stay in front of their man and help more.   Ainge drafts guys with good metrics too in a lot of case like Tatum's arms etc and they can play bigger.

Re: 20 Games In - Taking Stock of the Celtics (Merged)
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2019, 12:46:33 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Quote
I did not think it was possible that they could remain an elite defensive team without Al Horford.  He seemed so vital to everything they did on that end.

Guess Brad Stevens (and Smart) deserve more credit for the system and the focus / energy the team brings on a consistent basis.

It helps having athletic guys too, for years we didn't but we have improved a lot in this area.   Athletic guys can play bigger because they can jump and stay in front of their man and help more.   Ainge drafts guys with good metrics too in a lot of case like Tatum's arms etc and they can play bigger.

All good points.

I’d just add that even last season Stevens put out lineups that were smaller but quicker, with one big. The coaching staff makes closing out and guarding the 3-pt line a priority, and Boston has consistently been one of the league leaders in Opponent 3-pt% in the Brad Stevens era. They’re good this year - currently 6th - though they’ve been better in the past, and despite the heavy reliance this season on team speed.

Even more surprising, perhaps, is the slow tempo so far, especially because they’re causing so many turnovers.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I知 definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021