The ideal Second Unit

[cordialb]

I was just sitting here at work, thinking about all things celtics as I tend to do, and i started thinking about perks return from injury and who do we start?

Not to get off subject, but i quickly surmised that perk is a good answer as he anchors the defense well, and the first unit works well with him and has no lack of scoring.

Then i started thinking about the second unit, and how it should be built.  I think the way big daddy is playing, the second unit offense should be run through shaq. 

Not only is he the most gifted player on the second unit, he is the toughest to match up with. Running our offense through him will not only open up easy shots for himself, or others when he's double teamed, but it in effect slows down the game a bit...allowing the starters some rest which is what second units do. 

But if our offense is run through shaq daddy, who should we play with him to compliment him?

I really like a Shaq/Baby/X/Ray/Delonte.  Plenty of shooters to spread the floor, and Baby and delonte can clean up misses and make plays through their hustle.  The screens for the shooters set by shaq and baby would be devestating, and Ray and Shaq's chemistry is very apparent.  Nate could replace ray and could spend time at the 2 as J Oneil could do the same for baby.  I'm just not sure who the third member should be.  A defender/shooter type would be ideal.  Thoughts?

[rohanzsta]

I don't like Shaq on the second unit because that would be asking him to do too much (which is why he was ineffective in PHX and CLE). Shaq is money on the starting lineup right now because he is not being asked to post-up and create like in previous seasons, he is only being asked as a body for Rondo/big3 to lob to. This works because Rondo can penetrate and burn any defender, and because he plays like a true PG, he is always looking for the easy lob to Shaq. No defender wants to leave Pierce, KG, or Ray open, so ultimately the defender that collapses in the middle is the one responsible for Shaq. This is why he is so money right now.

On the second unit, however, he would have a much harder time being efficient and getting easy points. This is for two reasons. 1) Delonte/nate are no where near Rondo in terms of passing and helping teammates setup for an easy shot, and 2) Opposing teams are not afraid of leaving the person they are guarding on the second unit (like Daniels, BBD, Semih) in order to help get the ball out of Shaq's hand. Basically what this means is that the lack of proper penetration & passing from Nate/Delonte would mean that Shaq would have to return to being a post-up player, AND he would have to create difficult shots on his while being double teamed.

I'm not saying Shaq can't match up against any second unit center, but I am saying that right now he fits in with the starting line-up much more, and that if he became part of the second unit he would have to work much harder and have a more difficult time to get points. It just doesn't make sense.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't it would be fair to send Shaq packing to the 2nd Unit with how well he has played thus far.  He is better than Perk on offense.   We don't even know if Perk will be effective when he returns.   He is hard working and I wish him the best.   But look at how long it took KG to recover and LeBron never did bounce back from his last injury.  I hope KP does but there is no guarentee.   

I see your point about him boosting scoring in the second unit.  However,  that unit would be better in uptempo scoring IMHO something ill suited for Shaq.  The reason he does so well with the starters has a lot to do with our half court offense they run.   

[2short]

If we have our three centers healthy I don't think it matters who starts, each guy would probably play so many minutes with (depending on matchups) jermaine finishing the game because of ft shooting.  Sorry Semih you wave a towel at this point.
With a full squad our bench guys who would play:
davis, jermaine, perk (say), delonte, marquis, nate
When it matters I'd assume we would always have 2-3 starters on floor with any combination of subs.  That makes one formidable lineup.  So far davis & daniels have played great, delonte looked perfect for us in the little time he was back and jermaine oh jermaine 

[Greenbean]

Ideal 2nd Unit:

Chris Paul
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard

THAT is ideal

[greenpride32]

Shaq's chemistry with KG and Ray is too good to pull him off the starting unit.  Having said that I think the whole concept of 2nd unit is overrated with this team.  Ray, Paul, and Rondo all see significant time with 2nd team players.  You'll only see an entire 2nd unit out there together if there is foul trouble or it's a blow out.

[mmbaby]

He has really been great as the starting center and has a lot of points per game now in addition to being a clear defensive threat. I like him a lot.
First of all, Perk won't be playing till near the end of the season and we need Shaq to play this position. Once Perk comes back, the two of them will both be awesome. It would be cool to see them play together on the floor. I hope Doc tries that just to see what happens.
Get well soon, Perk!

[Edgar]

leaving the starting unit as it is

Nate, West, Quis, JO perk


tought o leave BBD out
but those 4 will make other team bigs to wish they neve entered the league
just too much size to handle for ANY and I mean ANY team
in the league.
the only ones capable of surviving that lineup
Maybe
and maybe
Lakers with a healthy full healthy bynum, NOrlea and maybe and maybe Dallas

[MBz]

leaving the starting unit as it is

Nate, West, Quis, JO perk


tought o leave BBD out
but those 4 will make other team bigs to wish they neve entered the league
just too much size to handle for ANY and I mean ANY team
in the league.
the only ones capable of surviving that lineup
Maybe
and maybe
Lakers with a healthy full healthy bynum, NOrlea and maybe and maybe Dallas

Don't think ya can leave BBD out.  He's just played too well.  I really think Jermaine O'neal is going to be the guy that is left out.

[xmuscularghandix]

Shaq hasn’t been scoring on post-ups, he’s been getting the ball dumped off to him. That isn’t going to happen with that second unit.

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Kevin
Shaq

then once Shaq get’s a little tired bring in Perk.

Start the second quarter with

Nate
Marquis
Pierce or Ray
Davis
Perkins

Then the 2nd half will be based off of match ups and foul trouble.

[Celtics4ever]

Perk might be decent playing along J. O'Neal as a PF on offense when he comes back could be twin towers for the second unit but ugh Davis can't play PF.

[csfansince60s]

Once Perk comes back, the two of them will both be awesome. It would be cool to see them play together on the floor. I hope Doc tries that just to see what happens.
Get well soon, Perk!

TP, mm for something I've thought about too since we signed Shaq.
The two of them together in certain specific situations might be cool. Imagine Vs the Lakers: Shaq bangs Bynum around, Perk manhandles Gasol and KG smothers Odom or Artest. That forces PP onto Kobe, but also Kobe would have to guard Pierce. The Kobe on Rondo tactic wouldn't work because that leaves their pt guard on PP. PP and Kobe can bang and wear the heck out of each other.

Also vs the Magic they wouldn't be able to use their Howard/Gortat tandem, which has been so effective against us.

[Tai]

An ideal second unit?

To me, one that's healthy.