so what if we overpay Rondo?

[Mr October]

say we give Rondo $11M a year for the next 5 years (starting next year) and he never gets any better than he is now (gambles on D, can't hit jumpers reliably, but still distributes the ball well)

considering the way Ainge has contracts cascading off the books over the next 3 years, in a worst case scenario, he still has the flexibility to work with that doesn't he?

I'm all for fiscal sanity and flexibility, but what I don't get is how people will set a limit on a guy and say "we can't pay him more than 9M"

I understand that to you and me $2M is a lot of money, but does it really hurt us to overpay him by $2M or even $3M a year?  At worst we would have to reduce our roster size to 12 or 13 and pass on signing the future equivalent to Tony Allen

just food for thought

I think setting hard limits for players is a good idea, otherwise you might over pay for 4 or 5 players and end up like the knicks. 

[winsomme]

Rondo is worth much more than $6 million/yr.

Keep in mind that Jeff's scenario was "what is he worth if he never improves at all".  In terms of true value, I don't think an all-pass, no-shoot point guard is worth too much more than a tick above the MLE.  

but he's not all-pass, he's great attacking the basket and he has elite ups...

[fugazzi24]

Rondo is at least worth $10mm a year and probably closer to $11mm here is my case.

Steve Nash - $12.2mm
Baron Davis- $11.2mm
Tony Parker- $11.5mm
Chauncey Billups- $11.0mm

Rondo is as good or at least very close to as good as all of these players.  He is a key player for the Celtics on offense even without a jumpshot.  He often gets 2 or 3 easy layups a game that helps our offense from having to grind out buckets.  Also his rebounding is very overlooked and really helps our team defense limiting second chance points.  

I think we offer Rondo a deal of 5 years $55mm or $60mm.  My biggest worry is that so many teams have tried to free cap space for next season that someone will offer him a max deal and he will leave.

[winsomme]

say we give Rondo $11M a year for the next 5 years (starting next year) and he never gets any better than he is now (gambles on D, can't hit jumpers reliably, but still distributes the ball well)

considering the way Ainge has contracts cascading off the books over the next 3 years, in a worst case scenario, he still has the flexibility to work with that doesn't he?

I'm all for fiscal sanity and flexibility, but what I don't get is how people will set a limit on a guy and say "we can't pay him more than 9M"

I understand that to you and me $2M is a lot of money, but does it really hurt us to overpay him by $2M or even $3M a year?  At worst we would have to reduce our roster size to 12 or 13 and pass on signing the future equivalent to Tony Allen

just food for thought

I think setting hard limits for players is a good idea, otherwise you might over pay for 4 or 5 players and end up like the knicks. 

I guess the main problem here is that we don't really have any idea what the Cs are looking to spend and Rondo is looking to get.

we just getting a little sense from guys like Rusillo that they might not be on the same page money-wise...

[bostonfan23]

Jeff has definitely developed an attachment to Rondo!

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

say we give Rondo $11M a year for the next 5 years (starting next year) and he never gets any better than he is now (gambles on D, can't hit jumpers reliably, but still distributes the ball well)

considering the way Ainge has contracts cascading off the books over the next 3 years, in a worst case scenario, he still has the flexibility to work with that doesn't he?

I'm all for fiscal sanity and flexibility, but what I don't get is how people will set a limit on a guy and say "we can't pay him more than 9M"

I understand that to you and me $2M is a lot of money, but does it really hurt us to overpay him by $2M or even $3M a year?  At worst we would have to reduce our roster size to 12 or 13 and pass on signing the future equivalent to Tony Allen

just food for thought

I 100% agree with you Jeff.

[xmuscularghandix]

I understand that to you and me $2M is a lot of money, but does it really hurt us to overpay him by $2M or even $3M a year? 

thats 2 or 3 million that we aren't putting towards role players or even to lure bigger greater FA targets.

[Mr October]

On Rondo's value - he's probably at 9 or 10 mil per year, assuming he doesn't improve much. He's got a great handle, can pass, plays good defense (even though he gambles too much), he can ignite teammates and the crowd with spectacular plays, he rebounds extremely well, etc.

Yet he is not a max player and probably never will be. A max PG needs to be able to carry a team on offense - Nash, Paul, Kidd (in his day), D Williams, possibly Rose. Rondo will never carry a team on offense.

In the open court he can cause havoc on both ends of the floor. In the half court against elite defense, his offense is very limited.

[crownsy]

I understand that to you and me $2M is a lot of money, but does it really hurt us to overpay him by $2M or even $3M a year? 

thats 2 or 3 million that we aren't putting towards role players or even to lure bigger greater FA targets.

thats not exactly true, espically if your over cap in the first place.

you can't assume we can go dollar for dollar with the salary cap the way it is. This isn't baseball after all.

[BballTim]

Rondo is worth much more than $6 million/yr.

Keep in mind that Jeff's scenario was "what is he worth if he never improves at all".  In terms of true value, I don't think an all-pass, no-shoot point guard is worth too much more than a tick above the MLE.  

  I missed (in my post) the "what is he worth if he never improves at all" part (work gets distracting).

  But if Rondo's one of the better pgs in the league, shouldn't he get paid like it? If you think that if Rondo would be a good pg if he could shoot but isn't one now that's one thing, but Rondo does a lot of things to make the Celts win. $6M is probably close to the bottom for starting pgs not in their rookie contracts, and is probably at least 2M-3M below what the average for those guys would be.

[johnnyrondo]

I don't think it would be the end of the world to overpay Rondo. In fact it would be a safer decision than many others. He will still be in the heart of his prime when his contract would expire. He's not going to get worse and almost definitely will get better and likely much better. There is always the chance of injury, but that's the case with all contracts and the risk is much bigger with older players. So in reality resigning Pierce and giving KG the contract extension were much bigger risks and had a much higher potential for overpays. One could argue that both KG and Pierce have already declined some. Not hating on either of them. Just mentioning that our mid 30's players making 20 million a yr are much more riskier than the 22 yr old point guard who many were saying was the league's most improved player.

If we lose Rondo over 2 million a year that would be pitiful. And I don't blame Rondo for trying to get market value. KG has got his. Pierce and Ray have got theirs. And in the next 6 years Rondo projects to give you more. Why shouldn't he ask for 5 yrs/55 million when KG, Ray, and Pierce make about double that? I'd rather "overpay" Rondo then let's say extend Pierce at 14 million a yr for 3 years (made up that number. He'll probably want more). How many million dollars more will a mid 30's Pierce be worth over a young prime Rondo? Rondo (and his agent) are not being greedy. And definitely no greedier than Pierce and Ray when they demanded much higher max contracts for their 30's. Or KG when he got another 60 million or so for 3 years in his mid 30's.

[Mr October]

Here's where i think things get sticky with Rondo:

3 Years down the line, the Celtics will have become quite mediocre in all likely hood. Most of Allen, Pierce, Garnett will have retired. Rondo and Perkins will be surrounded by a bunch of role players and late 1st / 2nd round prospects. What will Rondo's attitude be like? Will he be mature enough to be a leader? Will a prospective big time FA want to play with him?

I have no idea what the answer is to that question... I hope he continues to mature and improve his shot. I really like his game.

[jdpapa3]

I am nervous that he will always be a liability in the playoffs. Chicago had no defensive scheme whatsoever. Their coach was not ready for the playoffs. Orlando, Cleveland, and LAL had a gameplan to ditch Rondo and we struggled against all 3 teams, which is important because they are the contenders.

I would be curious to see VORP here. It looks like you can get by as a contender with a so-so point guard, as shown by the Magic this year, the Lakers the last 2 years and in the early 00's, the Celtics last year, etc. I would give a strong look into dealing him this offseason. I'd like to parlay Rondo into an all star big man. That's the thing. I'm completely down to deal him, but I value him highly. Can't give him away for peanuts.

[BballTim]

Here's where i think things get sticky with Rondo:

3 Years down the line, the Celtics will have become quite mediocre in all likely hood. Most of Allen, Pierce, Garnett will have retired. Rondo and Perkins will be surrounded by a bunch of role players and late 1st / 2nd round prospects. What will Rondo's attitude be like? Will he be mature enough to be a leader? Will a prospective big time FA want to play with him?

I have no idea what the answer is to that question... I hope he continues to mature and improve his shot. I really like his game.

  If that happened we'd be (I would think) at least $20M under the cap, if not more, and Danny would be shopping for a max contract player. I'd be very surprised if we got to that point, and Danny didn't trade any of the contracts of the big three for other high-paid players.

[Cman]

 If that happened we'd be (I would think) at least $20M under the cap, if not more, and Danny would be shopping for a max contract player. I'd be very surprised if we got to that point, and Danny didn't trade any of the contracts of the big three for other high-paid players.

Which makes this summer so interesting given the Cs $23M or so in expiring contracts.  Danny can use Ray Allen to bridge the Cs into the future.  The issue/ question, of course, is whether a trade involving Ray Allen makes the Cs better for the near and long term , or merely makes them mediocre...
It will depend on who Ray Ray gets traded for...