2013 CB Historical Draft: Team Rosters

[nickagneta]

I have a bigger problem with Adrian Dantley on that Seattle squad than I do Walton's injury problems. If Walton were 100% healthy for that entire MVP season, he's maybe the first pick in this draft. He was that good. But Dantley's fit on that team is, sport to say it GF, just bad. There are a couple guys in this thing I would never draft. Dantley and Elvin Hayes are two of those players. They were just outstanding talents and awful players to fit in a team concept.Sort of like Monta Ellis is today.

[Fafnir]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

[Donoghus]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

A HUGE reason why the CB Draft has become so unhinged the past few years.

[GreenFaith1819]

I have a bigger problem with Adrian Dantley on that Seattle squad than I do Walton's injury problems. If Walton were 100% healthy for that entire MVP season, he's maybe the first pick in this draft. He was that good. But Dantley's fit on that team is, sport to say it GF, just bad. There are a couple guys in this thing I would never draft. Dantley and Elvin Hayes are two of those players. They were just outstanding talents and awful players to fit in a team concept.Sort of like Monta Ellis is today.

I, as well as Joe Dumars and the late great Chuck Daly, seemed to LOVE AD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdO_3iW5QAA

I'm sure Bill, Mo, and Buck will, too.

He is not Larry at the SF, but ball movement won't be a problem with him at all.

Plus, we will run our offense through Bill, AD and Mo...Walton's that great of a passer, and AD is no slouch, either.

AD averaged nearly 4 assists for the yr I chose, plus upped his averages, across the board, during the playoffs that yr.

Make no mistake - Adrian Dantley isn't stopping many opposing SFs..he was not known for his defense...I'd give him average to mediocre at best.

But his getting to the free throw line as mentioned in the clip, and his scoring will help our team and be welcomed.

Glad to have AD, and his signature Free-throw stance. He'd be getting to the line a LOT in this format, I believe.



I've already done some head-to-head comparisons, and with perhaps the best single defender in this thing (Coop), Adrian Dantley STILL played well.

[AB_Celtic]

Thanks to bdm for recognizing the potential Washington has with its powerful frontcourt. I guess since nobody else seems to be recognizing us I'll do a little presentation of our team, player-by-player.

1. Bob McAdoo
McAdoo is our offensive centerpiece. For his selected (MVP) year he averaged 34.5 ppg on .512 shooting, adding 14.1 rebounds, 2.2 assists, and 2.1 blocks. A five-time All-Star and a two-time NBA champion. I might add that he's a coach with the Heat now, as he's been recognized for his basketball smarts. Many knock him for his defense, but in his selected season he was not only 1st overall in offensive win shares, but 6th overall in defensive win shares. Still, if that's not enough, we move on to Washington's defensive anchor...

2. Artis Gilmore
Considered by many to be one of the most underrated centers of all time. 7'2". Hall of Famer (along with McAdoo and Wilkes). 5x All-ABA 1st team. 5x All-ABA 1st team Defensive. 1x All-NBA 2nd team Defensive. 11x All-Star between the ABA and NBA. Gilmore has clearly been recognized as one of the best of his time. Not only is he a defensive rock, but he's as efficient as they come offensively: consistently in the top 10 for PER and top 5 for TS% (historically the all-time leader in TS% - look it up!) In his selected season, he contributed 22.1 ppg on .559 shooting, 13.1 rpg, 3.2 ast and 2.2 blk.

3. Jamaal Wilkes
Rounding out the frontcourt, we have the 3x All-Star and 3x NBA champion. 2nd highest scorer on both Laker championship teams (above Magic, I might add). Also a 2x All-Defensive 2nd team selection. Selected season stats: 17.7 ppg on .478 shooting. 7.6 reb, 2.8 ast, and 1.7 stls. There have been seasons where he's scored or rebounded more, sure, but we need Wilkes rebounding well and scoring at an efficient clip since he'll be getting less touches next to McAdoo, Gilmore, and...

4. Walter Davis
Looking for an ultra-efficient SG? Look no further than 6'6" Walter Davis. In his 2nd NBA season, he shot .561 with 23.6 ppg, adding 4.7 reb, 4.3 ast, and 1.9 steals. He's a 5x All-Star, and 2x All-NBA 2nd team selection. His size certainly won't hurt on defense, either.

5. Sleepy Floyd
We were the last team to pick a PG, but don't worry, we still nabbed an All-Star in this sleeper (heh). In his chosen season, Sleepy posted 18.8 ppg on .488 shooting, adding 10.3 apg, 3.3 rebs, and 1.8 steals. For those of you keeping track, our starting 1-3 average a combined 5.4 steals per game. And even if Jamaal, Walter, or Sleepy don't swipe the rock away from your hands, you still have to get past our big guys. Yikes.

6. Paul Pressey
We were pretty ecstatic to get this guy as our sixth man. He has everything you want out of your first guy off the bench: rebounding (5.0 per game in his chosen season), passing (7.8 apg as a small forward!), efficient scoring (14.3 ppg on .488 shooting), and undeniable talent on the defensive end (2x All-Defensive 1st team and 1x 2nd team, 6th in defensive win shares twice in his career). He can theoretically play the 1-3 off the bench. Oh yeah, add 2.1 more steals per game. STEALTRACK'R(TM) 5.4 -> 7.5

7. Jeff Ruland
With our seventh-round pick, we weren't expecting to have such a solid big man to split the majority of the minutes with McAdoo and Gilmore. But there was the 6'10" PF/C Ruland, an All-Star, offensive rebounding machine (top 10 3x in his career), and ultra-efficient scorer (top 10 consistently in EFG% and TS%). In his chosen season, he posted 22.2 ppg on .579, 12.3 reb, 3.9 apg, and a block. He can come in for McAdoo or Gilmore, and we don't lose much offensively or defensively when he does.

Shorter summaries now, as our main guys have been covered...

8. Randy Smith
A guard who can do pretty much anything. 21.8 ppg on .494 shooting, 5.9 apg, 5.1 rpg, 1.9 steals in his chosen season. More All-Defensive selections for our team? Sure. 2x All-Defensive 1st team, 1x 2nd team. STEALTRACK'R (TM): 7.5 -> 9.4

9. Quinn Buckner
Can it be? A 9th round pick with 4 All-Defensive selections? Say hello to Quinn, guys. 13.3 ppg on .493 shooting, 4.7 ast, 3.6 reb, and 2.4 more steals. STEALTRACK'R (TM): 9.4 -> 11.8.

10. Mickey Johnson
We had plenty of big, tough dudes in the frontcourt so far, so our thinking here was to go with a quicker, more athletic combo forward in Johnson. 19.1 ppg on .463 shooting, 8.3 rebounds, 4.2 assists, and 1.4 blocks.

11. Rod Higgins
A three-point shooting specialist in the 11th round? What more can you ask for? In his chosen season, Higgins averaged 11.1 ppg on .481 shooting and .347 3pt shooting, with 4.3 rebounds and 2.8 assists. He's also tall, too, at 6'7", so don't think your defensive specialist SF is gonna be able to stop him.

12. Wayne Cooper
6'10" tough fella. 13.1 ppg on .466 shooting, with 7.8 rebounds and 2.9 blocks. Our twelfth man can block your first round pick!

Synergies:
1. Frontcourt defense/offense: Discussed this plenty before. McAdoo's defensive "weaknesses" are more than made up for by Gilmore, Wilkes, and the fact that you're gonna have a tough time getting to the rim in the first place (see STEALTRACK'R (TM)).

2. Frontcourt passing: McAdoo, Gilmore, and Wilkes all averaged over 2 assists per game. No ballhogs here!

3. Size: In an age when most teams centers are around 6'9" and their PF's are 6'7" or so, we went ultra big. Starting lineup heights... PG: 6'3", SG: 6'6", SF: 6'6", PF: 6'9", C: 7'2". Oh yeah, we big.

The Bullets are a legitimate contender. Find a glaring hole in our team, I dare you (and I don't want to hear star power: we have that in 3 HOFers, more All-Stars, and a bunch of champions - we had the last pick in the first round: "legitimate" star power wasn't gonna happen).

AB (and Rebus) out.

[GreenFaith1819]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

But that is how I see it.

I've monitored this blog since 06-07...didn't join it until Oct 09.

When ALL you see is one negative "opinion" of ur team, then I think most intelligent people will believe something's amiss.

As I've said before - I've ALWAYS drafted the best available Big in these Historical Drafts. One year it was Hakeem, KG in another, Kareem in one, and even went with KG on SS&R's draft a few yrs ago.

I wasn't going to deviate from that this year, no matter who was available. To me, the Center spot is the most important position in the game, regardless of what LeBron, Magic, Larry, etc - do.

For me, I built around Walton. Would do it again if I had to. Only one person in this thing had anything positive to say about that choice, maybe two.

Just calling it as I see it.

[nickagneta]

Thing is GF, Dantley in 83-84 did not play well with others. Ball hog might be too nice a thing to say about early Dantley. I just don't see the fit as being a good one and leave it at that.

[GreenFaith1819]

Thing is GF, Dantley in 83-84 did not play well with others. Ball hog might be too nice a thing to say about early Dantley. I just don't see the fit as being a good one and leave it at that.

But see - that is where the subjective part comes in.

You have to remember - he is not playing with THAT group...he is playing with THIS one, and being coached by a great coach (Jerry Sloan), not Frank Layden (no disrespect to Frank - a great coach).

At least for me - I believe that he will be a great fit in THIS format.

[ronaldo943]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

But that is how I see it.

I've monitored this blog since 06-07...didn't join it until Oct 09.

When ALL you see is one negative "opinion" of ur team, then I think most intelligent people will believe something's amiss.

As I've said before - I've ALWAYS drafted the best available Big in these Historical Drafts. One year it was Hakeem, KG in another, Kareem in one, and even went with KG on SS&R's draft a few yrs ago.

I wasn't going to deviate from that this year, no matter who was available. To me, the Center spot is the most important position in the game, regardless of what LeBron, Magic, Larry, etc - do.

For me, I built around Walton. Would do it again if I had to. Only one person in this thing had anything positive to say about that choice, maybe two.

Just calling it as I see it.

Its not being bias and the only thing i dont get is how you keep bringing up how Walton holded his own against Kareem in 77-78 its like me bringing up how Kareem dominated Walton in 75-76 where he scored 50 to Walton's 7 or 48 to 12 or 39 to 11. Most people didnt say anything positive because you chose Bill over Magic you are probably 1 in 1,000 who would have done that

[Fafnir]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

But that is how I see it.

The assumption that your point of view is so in the right, has so much value that the only way others to not view it as you do is BIAS says to me that you don't properly respect others point of view.

If you want to engage in a meeting of the minds as adults whom are equals and have a debate you have to acknowledge and accept the fact that other smart people are going to think you're wrong.

[Moranis]

Philadelphia 76ers – All around solid team, and championship contender.  Best front court is the league?  But offset by the subpar backcourt, as I don’t like Aguirre (or Theus) at the 2.  I think Philly should have gone for fit here, instead of more firepower.

I have 1 of only 4 Hall of Fame PG's and the backup has the highest assist total of any player in the game.  So it seems you criticism is really of my SG's which you mentioned so I will give you a little background on my thought process of Aguirre and Theus. 

In this setting where there are pretty much no all time great SG's (i.e. no Jordan, no Bryant, no West, no Drexler, no Miller, etc.) you didn't need to have any particular skill set to succeed.  I knew that going in so I left that starting position for last intentionally in my draft (that isn't to say I didn't consider SG's earlier, but I wasn't going to reach to fill that position like I would have elsewhere).  I also knew that because of that, I could use a smaller SF, like Aguirre, in the position and be fine and against teams with quicker SG's then I have Theus to match-up with them.  That is also why I choose the year I did for Aguirre.  It was his best three point shooting season of his career (until the last two long past his prime) and he also played some SG that season and was generally quick enough to play that position (as well as back-up Dr. J). 

Both Aguirre and Theus fit my team's general mantra of efficient scoring and overall well rounded skill sets.  They are both good rebounders, get some steals, excellent passers (especially in Theus' case), get to the line a lot (and hit the foul shots), and generally efficient scorers by hitting near 50% from the field (and while Aguirre's 35.3% from long range doesn't look like a lot by today's standards he actually finished 19th in the league that year).

[bdm860]

I respect your thoughts but let me make an argument here.

You are basing your ranking of the Lakers because we reached on Michael Cooper?

While it's true that it was a definite reach, but cmon, dropping the Lakers out of contention because of that? Look at the players the Lakers drafted after Cooper though? Multiple time All NBA defense, All NBA-ers, their skills compliments Mocnrief and Jabbar. Isn't it a bit unfair to judge the team based on the fact that we reached for a player early? A dynamic one at that?

Not to mention this brick wall defense is only second to Rebus' and AB's team? Not being in the overall team, the Lakers are fine. But 2nd in Best Defense. We demand a recount.

I like Michael Cooper, a player I'd definitely want on my team if I was participating.

After the 2nd round, I had you as the best team in the league, then I think Cooper was a bad pick to start round 3, and I don't think your team ever recovered.  If only because those early picks are so important, and you quickley get to a lower tier of players sometime around rounds 3/4.  I really feel like you just threw one away by taking a player who is coming off your bench with your 3rd pick, and that's putting you at a disadvantage.

Picks I would have liked better for you:
Mo Cheeks.  Still get the great team player, All-Defensive team guy, with a championship pedigree.  An All-Star pg who forms a lock down backcourt with Moncrief.  Would have been a much better fit IMO.

Jamaal Wilkes.  Another guy who proved he could be a supporting player on a championship team.  All-Defensive 2nd team.  All-Star.  Better scorer.  Better fit, IMO.

Bobby Jones would have been a better pick too, still get great D and hustle, but he'd fill a position you were lacking at the time.  Or if you bring him off the bench, he'd be a better 6th man.

Marques Johnson, All-NBA gives you a nice 3-man core, solid defender, but another good scorer.

Because of the Cooper pick, where I see teams with really strong 3-man trio's.  I see your team with a strong two man trio, and then a bunch of players who all do the same thing.  Don't get me wrong, I personally like your team, but I think it's so close at the top, this league is so competitive, a better 3rd round pick would have put you over the hump.  Instead I see you right there battling to get over the hump with a few other teams.

Personally I stopped ranking after 3 for overall, because there's just a few teams I thought were so close, I couldn't decide who I liked more.

[GreenFaith1819]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

But that is how I see it.

The assumption that your point of view is so in the right, has so much value that the only way others to not view it as you do is BIAS says to me that you don't properly respect others point of view.

If you want to engage in a meeting of the minds as adults whom are equals and have a debate you have to acknowledge and accept the fact that other smart people are going to think you're wrong.

Then you must've not paid any attention to my posts since I've been a member here on this blog.

That is sad.

Quite simply, the point being made - as Ronaldo has pointed out yet again - no one here wants to accept that I chose Bill Walton over Magic, except for maybe two ppl.

As smart people, even if we don't agree with someone's choice - we should accept it and move on.

[GreenFaith1819]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

But that is how I see it.

I've monitored this blog since 06-07...didn't join it until Oct 09.

When ALL you see is one negative "opinion" of ur team, then I think most intelligent people will believe something's amiss.

As I've said before - I've ALWAYS drafted the best available Big in these Historical Drafts. One year it was Hakeem, KG in another, Kareem in one, and even went with KG on SS&R's draft a few yrs ago.

I wasn't going to deviate from that this year, no matter who was available. To me, the Center spot is the most important position in the game, regardless of what LeBron, Magic, Larry, etc - do.

For me, I built around Walton. Would do it again if I had to. Only one person in this thing had anything positive to say about that choice, maybe two.

Just calling it as I see it.

Its not being bias and the only thing i dont get is how you keep bringing up how Walton holded his own against Kareem in 77-78 its like me bringing up how Kareem dominated Walton in 75-76 where he scored 50 to Walton's 7 or 48 to 12 or 39 to 11. Most people didnt say anything positive because you chose Bill over Magic you are probably 1 in 1,000 who would have done that

And if you've paid attention to any of my posts here you would see why I chose Bill Walton.....

Once again, in these Historical Drafts I've ALWAYS chosen a Big Man...the best one available in my eyes.

Some people are bent out of shape because I did what I've always done?

I don't change like the weather....I've always preferred quality Big Men over anything else....that is JUST ME.

As soon as people get over that, then we can move on?

Next Historical Draft I will chose a Big for my first pick once again.

[nickagneta]

I thinkYoki made a mistake with the Cooper pick as well but I also believe he made up for it with some excellent mid and late round picks. Cliif Robinson at the end of the 9th round is every bit as good a pick as Cooper in the third in my opinion. Now, could LA have had a better team if he chose someone other than Cooper? Sure, but I think I am here to judge the team he did put together, not the one he could have put together.

So where and when a team got a player, to me, matters little. What matters is the team he has.