Trade Game

[JohnBoy65]

Let's have some fun. Which trade was the most lopsided trade you can remember in NBA history. I've only been following the NBA for the last 7 years, but when it's all said and done I really think the Boston Brooklyn trade for KG, PP and Jet might be one of the worst trades in history.

[PhoSita]

Obligatory Harden reference
Obligatory Pau Gasol reference
Obligatory Robert Traylor reference

Obligatory Andrew Wiggins reference?  Too soon?

[Moranis]

Let's have some fun. Which trade was the most lopsided trade you can remember in NBA history. I've only been following the NBA for the last 7 years, but when it's all said and done I really think the Boston Brooklyn trade for KG, PP and Jet might be one of the worst trades in history.

Can't really call that one until you find out what happens with the picks.

Kobe, Kareem, Russell, and Wilt trades all come to mind for me. 

[fairweatherfan]

Traylor for Dirk's gotta trump our deal.  A single HOFer outweighs a lot of decent assets. 

Can't really use the Pau trade anymore as Marc Gasol was part of the deal. 

But I'm going to go with the #1 pick (Joe Barry Carroll) for Robert Parish + #3 pick (Kevin McHale).  Two HOF bigs for one underachiever is about as lopsided as it gets.

[Lucky17]

Obligatory Joe Barry Carroll reference?

Edit: once again, scooped by FWF.

[Donoghus]

The Kareem trade was ridiculously lopsided.

[PhoSita]

Traylor for Dirk's gotta trump our deal.  A single HOFer outweighs a lot of decent assets. 

Can't really use the Pau trade anymore as Marc Gasol was part of the deal. 

But I'm going to go with the #1 pick (Joe Barry Carroll) for Robert Parish + #3 pick (Kevin McHale).  Two HOF bigs for one underachiever is about as lopsided as it gets.

Indeed, hard to find many trades made in earnest (i.e. both sides looking to improve) that basically swung three titles for one of the teams.

[colincb]

1 Wilt deal  - A Babe Ruth deal with the Warriors under financial duress

2 Parish/McHale deal

3 Dirk and Garrity for Traylor - Mavs went on to trade Garrity for Nash.  Unlike the Kobe deal below, GMs should have known about Dirk as he had played against Sir Charles and dominated him. Pitino supposedly had promised him that he'd pick him if he lasted to #10 where we ended up with The Truth.

4 Kareem - Deal didn't look as bad then as it turned out - Bucks got a decent center and the 2nd and 8th picks in a good draft, but the 2nd pick Dave Meyers retired after 4 years for religious reasons. Junior Bridgeman was around a long time as a 6 man and had his jersey retired by the Bucks. He went on to make really big money as a Wendy's franchisor. Kareem also had asked for a trade which had to hurt his trade value.

5 Russell - Cs traded a HOF center in Ed McCauley who was all-NBA 1st team 3 times and a good rookie in Cliff Hagan for a defensive center the likes of which we've never seen again. Hagen was one of the stars of the Hawks who won 5 WC titles and went to 5 ASGs. It wasn't a one-sided trade. It was one big gamble by Red that paid off brilliantly.

6 Kobe - He went 13th in the draft.  One might say everyone missed him, but it's tough to say it was a bad deal for the Hornets who wanted Divacs.  There were a lot of questions about Kobe.

I'd  stick the Rick Robey for Dennis Johnson trade at #4 if forced. DJ had already been a Finals MVP. Harden deal was cap-forced and Shaq and DH12 deals were both forced after P-contests.

[KeepRondo]

The pick for Rondo for cash. Right guys?? 

[GC003332]

The trade between the Jazz and Lakers as part of the Gail Goodrich signing, the 1979 pick exchanged turned out to be Magic Johnson, Goodrich had retired before Magic stepped onto the court.

[D.o.s.]

5 Russell - Cs traded a HOF center in Ed McCauley who was all-NBA 1st team 3 times and a good rookie in Cliff Hagan for a defensive center the likes of which we've never seen again. Hagen was one of the stars of the Hawks who won 5 WC titles and went to 5 ASGs. It wasn't a one-sided trade. It was one big gamble by Red that paid off brilliantly.

Russell was also a business transaction in addition to a trade, which needs to be noted.

[Celts Fan 508]

Obligatory Harden reference
Obligatory Pau Gasol reference
Obligatory Robert Traylor reference

Obligatory Andrew Wiggins reference?  Too soon?

Correct, Memphis really stole Gasol from the Lakers. 

I am tired of hearing that the Lakers stole Pau, was not accurate at the time and is not accurate now.

[jambr380]

Obligatory Harden reference
Obligatory Pau Gasol reference
Obligatory Robert Traylor reference

Obligatory Andrew Wiggins reference?  Too soon?

Correct, Memphis really stole Gasol from the Lakers. 

I am tired of hearing that the Lakers stole Pau, was not accurate at the time and is not accurate now.

You can really look at the OPs question in two ways - what was the most lopsided at the time and what was the most lopsided when it was all said and done? At the time, the Gasol for Gasol deal has to be #1 - we are talking a multiple time all-star for a mid-2nd round pick. It was pretty jaw dropping to everybody when it happened.

When it was all said and done - getting McHale and Parish for somebody people only know from this deal was the steal of a lifetime. They were an integral part of the resurgence of bball in the 80s (with Bird, Magic, Kareem, and Worthy of course) and why the NBA is what it is today.

[colincb]

5 Russell - Cs traded a HOF center in Ed McCauley who was all-NBA 1st team 3 times and a good rookie in Cliff Hagan for a defensive center the likes of which we've never seen again. Hagen was one of the stars of the Hawks who won 5 WC titles and went to 5 ASGs. It wasn't a one-sided trade. It was one big gamble by Red that paid off brilliantly.

Russell was also a business transaction in addition to a trade, which needs to be noted.

From the wagesof wins:

Trading the Ice Capades for Bill Russell
June 15, 2010 | Filed under: Basketball Stories   

As the NBA draft approaches, I thought of the story of Red Auerbach’s acquisition of Bill Russell.  This story*– told in “Let Me Tell a Story: A Lifetime in the Game”, the autobiography Auerbach wrote with John Feinstein, (a book I very much recommend and is available for less than $6 at Amazon.com) – was going to be re-told in Stumbling on Wins.  Unfortunately – in the process of editing the book — it ended up on the proverbial cutting room floor.  As we think about how much teams think about today, it is interesting pick this story up from the floor and look back a time when teams had far less information before the NBA draft.

The NBA draft has always been a part of the league.  But the resources teams could devote to the process were initially quite limited.

To illustrate, consider how the Boston Celtics came to draft Hall-of-Fame center Bill Russell. The person responsible for acquiring Russell was Red Auerbach.  Back in 1950 Auerbach became the Celtics head coach, as well as “general manager, chief scout, and marketing guru.”

For the first six years of Auerbach’s tenure the Celtics consistently posted a winning record but could never get past the Eastern Division Finals.  And then in 1956 Auerbach got a call from Bill Reinhart, his old college coach. Reinhart had just visited the West Coast and seen a player from the University of San Francisco named Bill Russell.  When Reinhart returned from California he called Auerbach and said: “I’ve seen this guy who can make you into a championship team. You have to get this guy.”  Reinhart went on to discuss Russell’s ability to get rebounds and play defense.

Of course Auerbach wondered if Russell could contribute on offense.  In Reinhart’s view, Russell was not a very good shooter and couldn’t help Boston much on offense.  Nevertheless, Reinhart thought Russell was a player who could help the Celtics win games.

For the remainder of the college season Auerbach tracked Russell and the University of San Francisco (primarily via newspaper reports). When the season was over Russell’s team was undefeated and had won a second straight NCAA title.

We should emphasize that Auerbach claims he never saw Russell play before he was drafted.  Auerbach’s interest in Russell was entirely based on what Reinhart told him about his play and the record Russell’s team achieved.  Based on this limited information, Auerbach took the following steps to acquire Russell.

The Celtics entered the 1956 draft with the 7th pick.  This pick was sent to the St. Louis Hawks – along with Ed Macauley and Cliff Hagan, for the 2nd pick.  It was believed that the Rochester Royals – who had the first pick – might want to take Russell. Auerbach, though, had a secret weapon.  The owner of the Celtics, Walter Brown, was also the president of the Ice Capades.  Brown called up the owner of the Royals– Lee Harrison — with the following offer:  Brown would send the Ice Capades to Rochester for one week if the Royals would pass on Russell.

Harrison agreed and with the first overall choice in the 1956 draft the Royals selected Si Green, a guard from Duquesne.  Green only played 33 games with the Rochester-Cincinnati Royals before he was sent to the St. Louis Hawks.  After the Hawks he played for a franchise that transformed from the Chicago Packers, to the Chicago Zephyrs, and finally to the Baltimore Bullets.  And then he finished his career in 1965-66 with the Boston Celtics.  Across his nine season career Green never averaged more than 12.7 points per game and he was below average in shooting efficiency.  Although we can’t measure Wins Produced prior to 1977, one suspects given the data that is available that Green was not one of the better NBA player in the game during his career.  In sum, one hopes the shows the Ice Capades put on for that one week in Rochester were simply amazing; because it certainly appears Si Green never came close to the productivity of Bill Russell.

Lessons Learned

Okay, beyond this being a fascinating story about Red Auerbach, what do we learn from this tale?

1. Back in the 1950s, the NBA was a very small business.  Can one imagine a team trading the rights to host a show over taking a player with the number on pick?  If that is the still the case, what show would the Wizards take to pass on John Wall?

2. This story highlights how little information decision-makers had before drafting talent in the 1950s.  Although I believe you need to do more than just watch a player, I wouldn’t think anyone would want to draft a talent they never even saw play.   Certainly one wouldn’t expect anyone today to go to this much effort for a player they had never met.

3. And finally, this story also highlights a point we made in Stumbling on Wins. Often the first pick in the NBA draft is far more productive than the second pick (although in this case, Russell was technically the second pick). Therefore NBA teams have an incentive to do whatever they can to land that first pick.

Of course, “often the first pick…” is not “always.”  If John Wall does go first in 2010, I am not sure he will necessarily be much better than the players who go afterwards.

Update: Some people have questioned whether the Celtics gave up the seventh pick in the 1956 draft to acquire Bill Russell.  Here is what Auerbach and Feinstein said in their book: “(Auerbach) called his old boss Ben Kerner, who by then owned the team in St. Louis. He offered (Ed) Macauley and a swap of first round draft picks — Kerner’s number two slot for Red’s number seven slot. According to Red, Kerner said, “Deal”.” 

The game has changed a lot even since when Dirk was a prospect. Tough to believe he would have slid to 9 today. There's so much more info on international players after BB took off around the world as a result of the Dream Team exploits. Pierce OTOH, probably would have gone around the same slot today if he came out with his iconic old man game.

[Celts Fan 508]

Obligatory Harden reference
Obligatory Pau Gasol reference
Obligatory Robert Traylor reference

Obligatory Andrew Wiggins reference?  Too soon?

Correct, Memphis really stole Gasol from the Lakers. 

I am tired of hearing that the Lakers stole Pau, was not accurate at the time and is not accurate now.

You can really look at the OPs question in two ways - what was the most lopsided at the time and what was the most lopsided when it was all said and done? At the time, the Gasol for Gasol deal has to be #1 - we are talking a multiple time all-star for a mid-2nd round pick. It was pretty jaw dropping to everybody when it happened.

When it was all said and done - getting McHale and Parish for somebody people only know from this deal was the steal of a lifetime. They were an integral part of the resurgence of bball in the 80s (with Bird, Magic, Kareem, and Worthy of course) and why the NBA is what it is today.

No at the time I thought Memphis won the trade.

Marc had improved each year in his Spanish league that if he was drafted the year of the trade he would have been a top 3 pick.  The Grizzlies also got 2 first round picks, the former #1 overall pick in Kwame Brown, and a promising rookie in Javaris Crittenton (who turned out to be a criminal).  Memphis was losing money with Pau on the team and rebuilt with Marc on a rookie deal and Zach Randolph who they acquired with the cap money, also got 2 firsts, a former #1 overall, and the Lakers top pick from the year before.