I am not for trading Ray but...

[ssspence]

Roy, considering Prince's poor health and Rip's dumb contract (why do folks continue to call Dumars a good GM?), I think you're overestimating both players value. Who is taking on this kind of money from them when they know Detroit has zero leverage?

If we're going to do a deal where we're the trade partners goal is financial relief, I'd like to add some younger talent. I don't believe Phili would trade Iggy in the division. But i think the Sacramento situation bears watching -- if we'd take one of their bad contracts they may be willing to part with Martin.

They want salary relief, frontcourt help, and picks. A trade of Martin, Francisco Garcia (no interest in Nocioni personally -- the guy is still getting by on reputation, not production) and Kenny Thomas for Ray, Big Baby and Giddens would work. I'd throw in a pick to get it done.

I guess my point is: why trade for two overpaid guys past their prime when there will likely be better, younger options out there on financially strapped teams?

[BballTim]

This is one of the few Ray trade ideas I think I'd pull the trigger on, but I'm not sure Detroit would move both guys solely for expirings.

Wouldn't they be better off packaging them each in separate deals, trying to pick up some assets along with them?

  Who would give up assets for these guys? Look at their contracts. And none of them seem to be un the upside right now.

[Evantime34]

I think Cash strapped teams will be in firesale mode in about a month. I see this as being a good trade for us, if Prince can prove that he is healthy. Detroit would potentially buy out Ray and he could sign with us again.

[Chris]

This is a deal I would have to think very hard about.  The only thing that would make me stop and think would be Hamilton's contract.  I feel like that $9 million in 2012 could be tough to swallow.  But I think this deal makes the C's the outright favorites to win it all this year, and sets them up well for next year (although ownership might have a problem with the higher payroll).

Ultimately, this is one of those trades I don't think either team would do...but if they did end up doing it, I don't think either teams fans should have any reason to complain.

[fanofgreen]

Not messing with the best starting 5 in the L, with the best chemistry in the league.

Not messing with the starting 5 that won the championship

The thing thats different from the championship year and this year is the bench. not the starting 5 and not the coaching staff,  the bench. All transactions between now, and the  trade deadline, should be to better our bench.

I'm not touching the starters

We can't improve for real our bench without givin up a starter, and Ray is the best that we can offer (except for Pierce, but he is untouchable!); i don't like this trade because the players proposed are aged and always injured, but i think that we need a change in our roster, especially because age and lack of athleticism (and injury, ok..) are becoming a factor in our losses when we are opposed to teams like ,for example, Atlanta and Chicago.

I believe,We can improve our bench without giving up a starter.

we can trade for Sasha Pavlovic (better than Scal and JR, maybe Billy, more offensively gifted than Tony)

We can trade for Keyon Dooling (better than Eddie House, Jr, Scal, Tony, Billy)
[or we can wait ans see if he gets bought out]

We can sign Sean Williams (athleticism on the front line, something that Scal/Shelden/Baby will never be able to bring to this team.) athleticism is what could be used against the Atl's and Chicago's like you said.

We can also try and trade for Dominic McGuire (athleticism on the front line also)

There are ways we can strengthen our bench without giving up a starter . We dont need a complete retooling, we need to change out the parts that are ineffective with parts that bring effectiveness in areas where we are weak.

Sasha's contract is something like $1.5 for 1 year
McGuires contract is $825k for 1 year
Sean Williams is currently a free agent
Dooling is $3.2 for 2 years.

we dont have to get all of these, guys but at least 2.

but this is more of a suggestion or an example of the things we can do w/o tearing up our starting 5

I really would like to get Damien Wilkins along with Sasha. Both give us youth, athleticism, and talent. Plus the options of having them play G and F...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjyzfpf

Throw in draft picks for each team and its done.
We would then have 2 open roster spots to sign a couple bigs and our championship squad would be complete. IMO

I like your deal.

[hpantazo]

I don't think we need to do anything except get everyone healthy. We have the best lineup top to bottom in the league when healthy. Losses to teams like the bulls and the hawks have as much to do with lack of interest from our key players as it does to injuries, but I don't think it has to do with lack of ability. These guys know that they will get a decent seed in the playoffs and the playoffs are what counts, they have nothing to prove by getting the #1 seed and it shows. I'm not worried about any team beating a healthy celtics team in the playoffs. Don't underestimate the absence of KG either. Look how poor the lakers have been without Gasol, and he's not even their best player.

[PosImpos]

Have any of your who are for this deal actually looked at the way that Rip and Tayshaun are performing this year?  We'd be the losers in this trade.

[More Banners]

No way, not for Rip and Prince.  They would add depth, but at this point in their careers, they are not the answer.

Ray really wants to be here, which is great.  We want guys like that.  Hopefully we can keep him for 2 more years at reasonable (mid-level type) money to be 6th man.

Would I (or Danny) trade him?  Sure, but it would take a Godfather sort of deal that returns a young star or potential star player that is locked up for several more years.  Perhaps not an all-star, but someone very, very good.  Think Big Al-level guys.  Even then, I would hope Ray comes back, and soon, eihter via buy out or during the summer as our big FA signing.

[moiso]

Have any of your who are for this deal actually looked at the way that Rip and Tayshaun are performing this year?  We'd be the losers in this trade.

exactly.  it's not 2008 anymore.

[Andy Jick]

If Danny pulls the trigger on a deal like this, then Eddie Lacerte should be signed to a max contract...

[jdpapa3]

Tayshaun is 29 and turns 30 at the end of February.
Rip is 31 and turns 32 in a few weeks.

It's a lot of salary in the future and the health of these guys is questionable this season. It's tough to tell whether they'd help us more than Ray would THIS season. I don't think I could pull the trigger.

The issue with Ray right now is that there are no young guys of value that he can be packaged with to return an all star. It's also an issue because the contract he will want this summer will be more than he is worth in the years of that contract.

I can already see myself getting annoyed in the future at people criticizing Danny for not dumping Ray at this trade deadline. I just haven't seen realistic deals that would help us in our championship goal THIS YEAR.

[moiso]

If Danny pulls the trigger on a deal like this, then Eddie Lacerte should be signed to a max contract...

Haha, read this the other day and agreed, but I just re-read it and it cracked me up.  Nice!  After all, Lacerte would be more valuable than someone like TMac, right?

[BballTim]

If Danny pulls the trigger on a deal like this, then Eddie Lacerte should be signed to a max contract...

Haha, read this the other day and agreed, but I just re-read it and it cracked me up.  Nice!  After all, Lacerte would be more valuable than someone like TMac, right?

  Plus, you can't really call it overpaying for your trainer because at some point in time he'll be a valuable expiring contract.

[moiso]

If Danny pulls the trigger on a deal like this, then Eddie Lacerte should be signed to a max contract...

Haha, read this the other day and agreed, but I just re-read it and it cracked me up.  Nice!  After all, Lacerte would be more valuable than someone like TMac, right?

  Plus, you can't really call it overpaying for your trainer because at some point in time he'll be a valuable expiring contract.

Exactly.  And think of the value we could get back if we trade Lacerte's expiring plus KG's expiring the same year.  They are bound to be a package deal the way things are going anyway.  We could trade for Lebron with that package!

[Jon]

I don't like it.  I know that the three we'd get might be better than the 3 we give up, but I don't think that matters that much.  Sure, Maxiell's a nice player but has ZERO value to a team that has Perk, KG, Wallace, and BBD.  BBD is going to have a tough enough time finding playoff minutes.  There's no way that we're finding minutes for a 5th big. 

And while a Hamilton/Prince combo SEEMS nice, when you actually look at a playoff series minutes breakdown, the value diminishes.  I mean, would you rather have 38 mpg of Pierce, 38 mpg of Ray, and 20 mpg of Marquis Daniels, or 38 mpg of Pierce, 32 mpg of Rip, and 26 mpg of Prince?  Sure, Prince likely presents an upgrade over Daniels, but doesn't Hamilton also present a downgrade compared to Ray?  And wouldn't this also make our starting five weaker, which is ultimately going to win us a game in a tight playoff matchup?

The only way I trade Ray is if another team is going to give up an elite player that can take Ray's spot.  This trade-Ray-for-depth nonsense is just that.