Rumor: Terry to the hornets

[celticinorlando]

Wonder how often Danny appears in Jordans nightmares all tied to the the day he said No for privilege of drafting Frank Kaminsky. No Danny...No pick/trade for you, No, No!

Hornets are so poorly run. It is comical.

[SHAQATTACK]

Charlotte can't pay him without a sign and trade, so if he's going that means we're helping.

ill help hold the door 

[footey]

**** with that 15 mill a year BS Terry. You are a virus.

I would not be surprised for Terry to get up $15 mm. Agree it's an overpay but a lot of FA money out there, and not that many FA guards available. He's very young, and did get a lot of attention 2 seasons ago. Many have written off last season.

[Vermont Green]

http://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1145352653301583872

Per source, as of now Terry Rozier’s qualifying offer has not been renounced. The Suns, Knicks, Mavericks, Bulls, Hornets and Magic have all expressed interest in the point guard.   

Still a chance to salvage several opportunities by keeping a Rozier S&T open, whether that be trying to keep Al or get access to the higher MLE!

It sounds to me that a couple of options exist with Rozier.  If we sign and trade him to a team with cap space (maybe one of the teams mentioned here), we get a trade exemption that we can use to get another player.  If the team doesn't have cap space, such as Charlotte, we would take a player back, which is still better than taking nothing.

The trick is that I think we have to renounce Rozier before we can sign Kemba Walker or we don't have enough space.  That is why I am surprised to see all these sign and trade pronouncements.  Now if the sign and trade is directly with Charlotte, I am not sure how that would work so that we still get Kemba.  If we sign Rozier, even if we send him out, it is still cap space unless we don't take anything back other than draft picks.

One option is that Brooklyn could decide to play nice and do a sign and trade for Kyrie and someone else play nice and accept a S&T for Horford.  These would likely require draft picks.  In that way, we could get two large trade exemptions and we could sign and trade for Kemba and then use the other exemption for maybe Capela.  Then we could sign and either keep or trade Rozier.

[tazzmaniac]

http://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1145352653301583872

Per source, as of now Terry Rozier’s qualifying offer has not been renounced. The Suns, Knicks, Mavericks, Bulls, Hornets and Magic have all expressed interest in the point guard.   

Still a chance to salvage several opportunities by keeping a Rozier S&T open, whether that be trying to keep Al or get access to the higher MLE!

It sounds to me that a couple of options exist with Rozier.  If we sign and trade him to a team with cap space (maybe one of the teams mentioned here), we get a trade exemption that we can use to get another player.  If the team doesn't have cap space, such as Charlotte, we would take a player back, which is still better than taking nothing.

The trick is that I think we have to renounce Rozier before we can sign Kemba Walker or we don't have enough space.  That is why I am surprised to see all these sign and trade pronouncements.  Now if the sign and trade is directly with Charlotte, I am not sure how that would work so that we still get Kemba.  If we sign Rozier, even if we send him out, it is still cap space unless we don't take anything back other than draft picks.

One option is that Brooklyn could decide to play nice and do a sign and trade for Kyrie and someone else play nice and accept a S&T for Horford.  These would likely require draft picks.  In that way, we could get two large trade exemptions and we could sign and trade for Kemba and then use the other exemption for maybe Capela.  Then we could sign and either keep or trade Rozier.

Why can't we just re-sign Horford and then do a double S&T with Charlotte:  Rozier (S&T) + filler for Kemba (S&T)?   

[NKY fan]

http://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1145352653301583872

Per source, as of now Terry Rozier’s qualifying offer has not been renounced. The Suns, Knicks, Mavericks, Bulls, Hornets and Magic have all expressed interest in the point guard.   

Still a chance to salvage several opportunities by keeping a Rozier S&T open, whether that be trying to keep Al or get access to the higher MLE!

It sounds to me that a couple of options exist with Rozier.  If we sign and trade him to a team with cap space (maybe one of the teams mentioned here), we get a trade exemption that we can use to get another player.  If the team doesn't have cap space, such as Charlotte, we would take a player back, which is still better than taking nothing.

The trick is that I think we have to renounce Rozier before we can sign Kemba Walker or we don't have enough space.  That is why I am surprised to see all these sign and trade pronouncements.  Now if the sign and trade is directly with Charlotte, I am not sure how that would work so that we still get Kemba.  If we sign Rozier, even if we send him out, it is still cap space unless we don't take anything back other than draft picks.

One option is that Brooklyn could decide to play nice and do a sign and trade for Kyrie and someone else play nice and accept a S&T for Horford.  These would likely require draft picks.  In that way, we could get two large trade exemptions and we could sign and trade for Kemba and then use the other exemption for maybe Capela.  Then we could sign and either keep or trade Rozier.

Why can't we just re-sign Horford and then do a double S&T with Charlotte:  Rozier (S&T) + filler for Kemba (S&T)?

Because the guys you have to use as fillers are too valuable to be just given away or Charlotte have to overpay terry and Morris (Filler) which they wouldn’t want to do

[No Nickname]

I know Rozier gets a lot of crap on this board.  But looking at that 2015 draft, he's one of the very few drafted before him that had not already been cut or traded until now.

1   Minnesota   Karl-Anthony Towns
2    LA Lakers      D'Angelo Russell - TRADED
3    Philadelphia   Jahlil Okafor - TRADED   
4    New York      Kristaps Porzingis - TRADED
5    Orlando      Mario Hezonja - TRADED
6    Sacramento   Willie Cauley-Stein - NOT RESIGNED
7    Denver      Emmanuel Mudiay - TRADED
8    Detroit      Stanley Johnson   - NOT RESIGNED
9    Charlotte      Frank Kaminsky - TRADED
10    Miami    Justise Winslow
11    Indiana   Myles Turner   
12    Utah      Trey Lyles - TRADED   
13    Phoenix   Devin Booker   
14    Oklahoma City   Cameron Payne - TRADED
15    Washington   Kelly Oubre - TRADED      
16    Boston      Terry Rozier . [Will be traded July 6th]

Looking in the rear view, the Rozier pick doesn't look too bad.  Sure he had a bad season this year, the whole team did.  But the post season of 2018 he was a nice asset. 

And him getting $19MM/yr from Charlottes isn't too shabby.

[slamtheking]

I know Rozier gets a lot of crap on this board.  But looking at that 2015 draft, he's one of the very few drafted before him that had not already been cut or traded until now.

1   Minnesota   Karl-Anthony Towns
2    LA Lakers      D'Angelo Russell - TRADED
3    Philadelphia   Jahlil Okafor - TRADED   
4    New York      Kristaps Porzingis - TRADED
5    Orlando      Mario Hezonja - TRADED
6    Sacramento   Willie Cauley-Stein - NOT RESIGNED
7    Denver      Emmanuel Mudiay - TRADED
8    Detroit      Stanley Johnson   - NOT RESIGNED
9    Charlotte      Frank Kaminsky - TRADED
10    Miami    Justise Winslow
11    Indiana   Myles Turner   
12    Utah      Trey Lyles - TRADED   
13    Phoenix   Devin Booker   
14    Oklahoma City   Cameron Payne - TRADED
15    Washington   Kelly Oubre - TRADED      
16    Boston      Terry Rozier . [Will be traded July 6th]

Looking in the rear view, the Rozier pick doesn't look too bad.  Sure he had a bad season this year, the whole team did.  But the post season of 2018 he was a nice asset. 

And him getting $19MM/yr from Charlottes isn't too shabby.

just makes me realize there were a lot of projected studs in that draft that are a lot closer to duds. 

not being traded doesn't mean much.  for example, is there anyone who wouldn't take Zinger over Rozier despite the fact Zinger's been traded?  I know the Knicks would love to have a healthy Zinger on their roster right now.

[PhoSita]

I know Rozier gets a lot of crap on this board.  But looking at that 2015 draft, he's one of the very few drafted before him that had not already been cut or traded until now.

1   Minnesota   Karl-Anthony Towns
2    LA Lakers      D'Angelo Russell - TRADED
3    Philadelphia   Jahlil Okafor - TRADED   
4    New York      Kristaps Porzingis - TRADED
5    Orlando      Mario Hezonja - TRADED
6    Sacramento   Willie Cauley-Stein - NOT RESIGNED
7    Denver      Emmanuel Mudiay - TRADED
8    Detroit      Stanley Johnson   - NOT RESIGNED
9    Charlotte      Frank Kaminsky - TRADED
10    Miami    Justise Winslow
11    Indiana   Myles Turner   
12    Utah      Trey Lyles - TRADED   
13    Phoenix   Devin Booker   
14    Oklahoma City   Cameron Payne - TRADED
15    Washington   Kelly Oubre - TRADED      
16    Boston      Terry Rozier . [Will be traded July 6th]

Looking in the rear view, the Rozier pick doesn't look too bad.  Sure he had a bad season this year, the whole team did.  But the post season of 2018 he was a nice asset. 

And him getting $19MM/yr from Charlottes isn't too shabby.

just makes me realize there were a lot of projected studs in that draft that are a lot closer to duds. 

not being traded doesn't mean much.  for example, is there anyone who wouldn't take Zinger over Rozier despite the fact Zinger's been traded?  I know the Knicks would love to have a healthy Zinger on their roster right now.

Yeah, I count 9 players who were drafted before Terry that I'd rather have had for the last four years, even if we understood that the guy was gonna sign elsewhere at the end of his rookie deal just like Terry did.


The biggest head-scratcher to me is Willie Cauley-Stein.  Is he a headcase?

How is it that we live in a world where WCS is worth barely above a minimum deal whereas Terry Rozier gets almost $20 million per season?


WCS is a measurably useful player whereas it's hard to point to a time where Terry Rozier was an above average rotation player apart from that one playoff run.  I guess it's easier to find productive bigs, but still.

[No Nickname]

I know Rozier gets a lot of crap on this board.  But looking at that 2015 draft, he's one of the very few drafted before him that had not already been cut or traded until now.

1   Minnesota   Karl-Anthony Towns
2    LA Lakers      D'Angelo Russell - TRADED
3    Philadelphia   Jahlil Okafor - TRADED   
4    New York      Kristaps Porzingis - TRADED
5    Orlando      Mario Hezonja - TRADED
6    Sacramento   Willie Cauley-Stein - NOT RESIGNED
7    Denver      Emmanuel Mudiay - TRADED
8    Detroit      Stanley Johnson   - NOT RESIGNED
9    Charlotte      Frank Kaminsky - TRADED
10    Miami    Justise Winslow
11    Indiana   Myles Turner   
12    Utah      Trey Lyles - TRADED   
13    Phoenix   Devin Booker   
14    Oklahoma City   Cameron Payne - TRADED
15    Washington   Kelly Oubre - TRADED      
16    Boston      Terry Rozier . [Will be traded July 6th]

Looking in the rear view, the Rozier pick doesn't look too bad.  Sure he had a bad season this year, the whole team did.  But the post season of 2018 he was a nice asset. 

And him getting $19MM/yr from Charlottes isn't too shabby.

just makes me realize there were a lot of projected studs in that draft that are a lot closer to duds. 

not being traded doesn't mean much.  for example, is there anyone who wouldn't take Zinger over Rozier despite the fact Zinger's been traded?  I know the Knicks would love to have a healthy Zinger on their roster right now.

I thought about that point too, but there's something to be said about guys who, while better talents than Rozier, presented a problem of some sort or asked to be traded.

Terry never asked to be traded, but to play more, or get the chance to start.  We were considering re-signing him if the Kemba deal didn't fall into our laps.

A happy Terry could have existed here next year, which is different from a disgruntled Porzingas-- although that isn't his fault either as everyone on the Knicks should be disgruntled.

A case could be made that after:

Towns
Russell
Porzingas
Booker

...that Terry is favorably compared talent-wise to these other guys picked before him:

Miles Turner
Kelly Oubre

I wouldn't say that any other player on that list was definitely a better talent/asset than Rozier.  He's at best the 5-8th best (current) talent from that list.  But no worse than the 11th.  A solid pick by Danny and development of the player by the staff.

[No Nickname]

I know Rozier gets a lot of crap on this board.  But looking at that 2015 draft, he's one of the very few drafted before him that had not already been cut or traded until now.

1   Minnesota   Karl-Anthony Towns
2    LA Lakers      D'Angelo Russell - TRADED
3    Philadelphia   Jahlil Okafor - TRADED   
4    New York      Kristaps Porzingis - TRADED
5    Orlando      Mario Hezonja - TRADED
6    Sacramento   Willie Cauley-Stein - NOT RESIGNED
7    Denver      Emmanuel Mudiay - TRADED
8    Detroit      Stanley Johnson   - NOT RESIGNED
9    Charlotte      Frank Kaminsky - TRADED
10    Miami    Justise Winslow
11    Indiana   Myles Turner   
12    Utah      Trey Lyles - TRADED   
13    Phoenix   Devin Booker   
14    Oklahoma City   Cameron Payne - TRADED
15    Washington   Kelly Oubre - TRADED      
16    Boston      Terry Rozier . [Will be traded July 6th]

Looking in the rear view, the Rozier pick doesn't look too bad.  Sure he had a bad season this year, the whole team did.  But the post season of 2018 he was a nice asset. 

And him getting $19MM/yr from Charlottes isn't too shabby.

just makes me realize there were a lot of projected studs in that draft that are a lot closer to duds. 

not being traded doesn't mean much.  for example, is there anyone who wouldn't take Zinger over Rozier despite the fact Zinger's been traded?  I know the Knicks would love to have a healthy Zinger on their roster right now.

Yeah, I count 9 players who were drafted before Terry that I'd rather have had for the last four years, even if we understood that the guy was gonna sign elsewhere at the end of his rookie deal just like Terry did.


The biggest head-scratcher to me is Willie Cauley-Stein.  Is he a headcase?

How is it that we live in a world where WCS is worth barely above a minimum deal whereas Terry Rozier gets almost $20 million per season?


WCS is a measurably useful player whereas it's hard to point to a time where Terry Rozier was an above average rotation player apart from that one playoff run.  I guess it's easier to find productive bigs, but still.

I posted my reply before I saw yours.  Sounds like we have similar thoughts regarding Rozier's value.

[indeedproceed]

Really happy for Terry and excited to see what he does when he's actually got to be a leader and the primary ball handler. I think he's gonna be pretty good.

[gouki88]

I know Rozier gets a lot of crap on this board.  But looking at that 2015 draft, he's one of the very few drafted before him that had not already been cut or traded until now.

1   Minnesota   Karl-Anthony Towns
2    LA Lakers      D'Angelo Russell - TRADED
3    Philadelphia   Jahlil Okafor - TRADED   
4    New York      Kristaps Porzingis - TRADED
5    Orlando      Mario Hezonja - TRADED
6    Sacramento   Willie Cauley-Stein - NOT RESIGNED
7    Denver      Emmanuel Mudiay - TRADED
8    Detroit      Stanley Johnson   - NOT RESIGNED
9    Charlotte      Frank Kaminsky - TRADED
10    Miami    Justise Winslow
11    Indiana   Myles Turner   
12    Utah      Trey Lyles - TRADED   
13    Phoenix   Devin Booker   
14    Oklahoma City   Cameron Payne - TRADED
15    Washington   Kelly Oubre - TRADED      
16    Boston      Terry Rozier . [Will be traded July 6th]

Looking in the rear view, the Rozier pick doesn't look too bad.  Sure he had a bad season this year, the whole team did.  But the post season of 2018 he was a nice asset. 

And him getting $19MM/yr from Charlottes isn't too shabby.

just makes me realize there were a lot of projected studs in that draft that are a lot closer to duds. 

not being traded doesn't mean much.  for example, is there anyone who wouldn't take Zinger over Rozier despite the fact Zinger's been traded?  I know the Knicks would love to have a healthy Zinger on their roster right now.

I thought about that point too, but there's something to be said about guys who, while better talents than Rozier, presented a problem of some sort or asked to be traded.

Terry never asked to be traded, but to play more, or get the chance to start.  We were considering re-signing him if the Kemba deal didn't fall into our laps.

A happy Terry could have existed here next year, which is different from a disgruntled Porzingas-- although that isn't his fault either as everyone on the Knicks should be disgruntled.

A case could be made that after:

Towns
Russell
Porzingas
Booker

...that Terry is favorably compared talent-wise to these other guys picked before him:

Miles Turner
Kelly Oubre

I wouldn't say that any other player on that list was definitely a better talent/asset than Rozier.  He's at best the 5-8th best (current) talent from that list.  But no worse than the 11th.  A solid pick by Danny and development of the player by the staff.

I really don't get how you can talk about how some of those guys presented problems, but gloss over Rozier's toxic presence this last season as "wanting to play more"

It also seems weird to me that when people are talking about how Terry was a solid pick they look at those taken ahead of him. What I'm more interested in are the players taken after him, as there are lots who I would rather Danny have taken (some at the time, many in hindsight).

Portis, RHJ, Nance, Harrell, Osman, Willy Hernangomez, Richardson, and Connaughton were all taken after him and I would have preferred all.

[nickagneta]

Rozier, after everything considered was probably selected in about the right area, mid way through the draft. In a redraft I would probably value the following players as better than Rozier and would take them ahead of Rozier:

Towns
Porzingas
Booker
Russell
Cauley-Stein
Turner
Winslow
Oubre
Portis
Hollis-Jefferson
Looney
Harrell
Richardson

So I have Rozier as about the 14th best player from that draft. I discount who was traded or who got paid what as the variables for those things aren't always based on the quality of the players and I think prove nothing.

[JBcat]

I’m curious what kind of compensation we will end up getting.  It’s somewhat similar to Russell going to GS.  Instead of losing Durant for nothing they got Russell back in return but had also had to surrender a protected first round pick to the Nets.  It would be great if that happened for us, and also possibly a trade exception.