2020 Historical Draft Thread: Draft over. Playoffs coming soon!

[GreenFaith1819]

Embiid was someone I was unsure about entering the draft. I was unsure how he would handle the matchups he'd face in this Historical League.

He is supremely gifted but his decision making is still a work in progress. He has struggled against good defensive big men that can hold their ground against him of which there will many in this fantasy league.

There is still a lot of immaturity in his offensive game. He doesn't work hard enough off the ball to establish deep position. Often catching the ball at 14-15 feet from the hoop instead of 10 feet as a result. Which often forces him into more contested difficult shots.

Even outside those situations, Embiid frequently settles for both difficult contested shots or long jump-shots instead of pounding home his main advantage down low. Then there is the decision making in the passing. Sometimes he wows you, others he annoys you by having tunnel vision (for his own offense).

Plus, he wants to take a lot of shots. Prove himself. Show his talent. Show that he can be the best player (scorer) on the court. Not sure how ready he would be take step back and accept a smaller role (how well he would do that). Even in a league like this where he is surrounded by great talents.

Skill level + physical talent is clearly there - among the most talented centers in this draft in terms of raw talent - but I question him mentally. His mental maturity.

I had a few makeshift team ideas with Embiid on them and I never felt fully comfortable about him - his role / his place - on those teams. I still feel that way. Unsure of him.

Of how well he'll do when defended against a guy like Alonzo Mourning or David Robinson. There is few easy matchups for Embiid in this league. It requires a more sophisticated / experienced attack. Superior decision making.

Wisdom and leadership. I don't think he has those things.

Great points....and you highlighted Embiid's mental approach to the game which is valid.

The same thing can be said about MANY players taken here - even in the first round...

KG's lack of aggression at times offensively - even though the talent IS there.

Shaq's reported beefs with Kobe in regards to HIS work ethic. Reportedly this kept LAL from perhaps winning 1 or 2 more banners.

Kobe's labeling of Pau Gasol as "The White Swan" for his lack of aggression at times.

Melo's issues...all mental but again the TALENT is there.

The talent IS there with Joel Embiid.

In these Historical Drafts we are not constrained with Health issues (which would've affected not only MY picks but others here). We are not constrained with Salaries - which in some ways limited Embiid's growth THIS season.

We are not constrained with OTHER teammates that have failed to develop their games - which in turn hurts his teammates.

At face value we are getting the BEST players in this format. If we're going to start questioning the mental side of players then that is a slippery slope that will affect half the rosters here.

[nickagneta]

This is all subjective so a player's attitude, maturity, possibility of injury in the year selected and overall fit are all very viable factors people can take into consideration. Let's face it, it's these EXACT reasons why we still have actual league MVPs that haven't been taken.

[Jvalin]

With the 14th pick in the 4th round, the Dallas Mavericks select Dikembe Mutombo.



8× NBA All-Star (1992, 1995–1998, 2000–2002)
All-NBA Second Team (2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1998, 2002)
4× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1995, 1997, 1998, 2001)
3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1997, 1998, 2001)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1995, 1999, 2002)
2× NBA rebounding leader (2000, 2001)
3× NBA blocks leader (1994–1996)
No. 55 retired by Atlanta Hawks
No. 55 retired by Denver Nuggets

Imo, top 3 rim protector of all time. Welcome to Dallas, Dikembe!

[nickagneta]

Round 4 is now closed!!!

[Who]

Yeah, that's the guy (Mutombo) I was wondering about when Gobert was picked. I was wondering why Gobert went first. Do others rate Gobert over Mutombo? Or do you prefer Deke?

Is it Gobert's offense? Does that give them edge?
Do people believe Gobert defends away from the hoop better?

I am genuinely curious.

I really did not expect that to happen - Gobert getting picked before Mutombo.

[action781]

I'm with Roy where I'm a bigger Melo fan than most.  I think talent-wise in a vacuum, he's just as good as Chris Webber and Ray Allen.  I had Melo ranked as a second rounder, immediately above both of those players.  He's a guy who is a better sharpshooter than people realize, similar to how people realized it with Pierce when the big 3 got together.  He's a guy capable of being an engaged defender.  Still question marks there though.

I think he'd thrive off an elite creator.  A guy like Kidd, Lebron, CP3, Kobe, DWade, Luka, Harden, Nash.  I think Denver is missing that player.  Carmelo would also be at his best getting out in transition.  I don't see my ideal version of Carmelo on this team yet, but Carmelo will at minimum still be able to operate nicely on this team in 1-1 stuff and be a better defender than we know him to be.

[Who]

I'm with Roy where I'm a bigger Melo fan than most.  I think talent-wise in a vacuum, he's just as good as Chris Webber and Ray Allen.  I had Melo ranked as a second rounder, immediately above both of those players.  He's a guy who is a better sharpshooter than people realize, similar to how people realized it with Pierce when the big 3 got together. 

That is one of the things that shocked me about Melo when he moved to OKC and in Houston. He posted some really strong spot up shooting numbers when he was the main man in NY and in Denver. He just did not get that many of them. I thought Melo would do much better as a spot up shooter as he got older but he seemed uncomfortable as one without all the touches that he had previously. Like he was no longer in rhythm to take the shot without being more involved in the game.

Not an issue for San Antonio. Just something that surprised me in real life about Melo when he was in OKC and HOU. I thought he'd adapt much better (in terms of scoring efficiency) to being a 3rd option with more spot up opportunities given how good his spot-up shooting was when he was the main scoring option.

[GreenFaith1819]

This is all subjective so a player's attitude, maturity, possibility of injury in the year selected and overall fit are all very viable factors people can take into consideration. Let's face it, it's these EXACT reasons why we still have actual league MVPs that haven't been taken.

Good points.

I just believe that Embiid would look like THIS



With the forwards I've placed around him - more often times than not.

They will punish opposing players for doubling him.

He won't be lackadaisical and sullen like he has been at times in the regular season.

With the quality Big I'm going to have subbing for him he will not be winded.

He's going to have specialists coming off the bench to fortify him defensively AND offensively.

[Donoghus]

Yeah, that's the guy (Mutombo) I was wondering about when Gobert was picked. I was wondering why Gobert went first. Do others rate Gobert over Mutombo? Or do you prefer Deke?

Is it Gobert's offense? Does that give them edge?
Do people believe Gobert defends away from the hoop better?

I am genuinely curious.

I really did not expect that to happen - Gobert getting picked before Mutombo.

Turn of the century Mutombo was still a force.  '00-01.  I had him above Gobert but its certainly left up to personal preference.

[wdleehi]

Yeah, that's the guy (Mutombo) I was wondering about when Gobert was picked. I was wondering why Gobert went first. Do others rate Gobert over Mutombo? Or do you prefer Deke?

Is it Gobert's offense? Does that give them edge?
Do people believe Gobert defends away from the hoop better?

I am genuinely curious.

I really did not expect that to happen - Gobert getting picked before Mutombo.

I took him, and I may be wrong, but I see Gobert being a little more mobile then Mutombo.   I didn't want a player another team could possible scheme off the floor.   

I also almost took Horford but wanted just a little more size at this point. 

[RPGenerate]

Yeah, that's the guy (Mutombo) I was wondering about when Gobert was picked. I was wondering why Gobert went first. Do others rate Gobert over Mutombo? Or do you prefer Deke?

Is it Gobert's offense? Does that give them edge?
Do people believe Gobert defends away from the hoop better?

I am genuinely curious.

I really did not expect that to happen - Gobert getting picked before Mutombo.

Turn of the century Mutombo was still a force.  '00-01.  I had him above Gobert but its certainly left up to personal preference.

He's the reason those early 2000s Philly teams were so great defensively.

[action781]

Yeah, that's the guy (Mutombo) I was wondering about when Gobert was picked. I was wondering why Gobert went first. Do others rate Gobert over Mutombo? Or do you prefer Deke?

Is it Gobert's offense? Does that give them edge?
Do people believe Gobert defends away from the hoop better?

I am genuinely curious.

I really did not expect that to happen - Gobert getting picked before Mutombo.

I assume we're going with 34-year-old 2000-2001 Mutombo.  He was good this season... DPOY even... but was he peak Mutombo?  I remember him seeming a bit old in the playoffs that series.  Maybe that's just because he was so overmatched by Shaq?  Those are the main memories I have of him from that season unfortunately, which probably isn't fair to him.

Rudy was a similar type of defender, but has a little more height and weight to him, which could be useful in certain matchups.  I think Rudy has a little more overall skill in his game too.

I had Rudy ranked as a 4th rounder over Mutombo a 6th rounder.

[Moranis]

I like the Anthony pick.  The team needed a #1 scorer and they picked up one of the best #1 scorers available in the two decade period. 

Still a bit surprised some of the uber talents haven't gone yet, especially as I think they'd fit on certain teams with certain players.

[Donoghus]

Yeah, that's the guy (Mutombo) I was wondering about when Gobert was picked. I was wondering why Gobert went first. Do others rate Gobert over Mutombo? Or do you prefer Deke?

Is it Gobert's offense? Does that give them edge?
Do people believe Gobert defends away from the hoop better?

I am genuinely curious.

I really did not expect that to happen - Gobert getting picked before Mutombo.

I assume we're going with 34-year-old 2000-2001 Mutombo.  He was good this season... DPOY even... but was he peak Mutombo?  I remember him seeming a bit old in the playoffs that series.  Maybe that's just because he was so overmatched by Shaq?  Those are the main memories I have of him from that season unfortunately, which probably isn't fair to him.

Rudy was a similar type of defender, but has a little more height and weight to him, which could be useful in certain matchups.  I think Rudy has a little more overall skill in his game too.

I had Rudy ranked as a 4th rounder over Mutombo a 6th rounder.

Problem is that you had Mutombo going up against peak, in his prime Shaq.

Early 2000s Shaq would've made almost any center in the history of the NBA look a little rough at that point.

[action781]

Yeah, that's the guy (Mutombo) I was wondering about when Gobert was picked. I was wondering why Gobert went first. Do others rate Gobert over Mutombo? Or do you prefer Deke?

Is it Gobert's offense? Does that give them edge?
Do people believe Gobert defends away from the hoop better?

I am genuinely curious.

I really did not expect that to happen - Gobert getting picked before Mutombo.

I assume we're going with 34-year-old 2000-2001 Mutombo.  He was good this season... DPOY even... but was he peak Mutombo?  I remember him seeming a bit old in the playoffs that series.  Maybe that's just because he was so overmatched by Shaq?  Those are the main memories I have of him from that season unfortunately, which probably isn't fair to him.

Rudy was a similar type of defender, but has a little more height and weight to him, which could be useful in certain matchups.  I think Rudy has a little more overall skill in his game too.

I had Rudy ranked as a 4th rounder over Mutombo a 6th rounder.

Problem is that you had Mutombo going up against peak, in his prime Shaq.

Early 2000s Shaq would've made almost any center in the history of the NBA look a little rough at that point.

Yeah, its almost certainly unfair.  Its just unfortunately my most predominant memories of him in a Philly jersey.