Would you trade #16 for Anthony Bennett?

[Jferrari401]

People say KO can't bring a pick better than 20, they say he stinks, they would trade him for Bennett. This just proves the point I have made for a long time, our players are never good enough and even when they totally outperform someone they are still the worst player in the proposed deals in the minds of CB. Our players have ALWAYS reached their ceilings while any other player has endless uptapped potential. Then people add Sully to this trade idea? Ha, good thing I decided to laugh more instead of arguing as much as I use to.

Since I previously suggested a trade of KO for Bennett I will respond. I think that Kelly is going to be a below average to average NBA player throughout his career. We have seen his strengths and weaknesses and I am of the belief that he is not a great piece going forward. You are right, Bennett has been very bad so far in his career and Kelly has been better. This is the reason a trade like this would work. Kelly may be better now but the idea is that Bennett has far more potential. Let's not forget that he was a number 1 overall pick, whether that was the right decision or not. The point that you make about our players always reaching their potential is one of the main reasons I would make that trade. This season almost every player on our team had a career year under Stevens. He is a master at getting the most out of his players. If Stevens could get Anthony Bennett to maximize his potential he could become a very good NBA player. Again, he could never blossom and remain a bust but that is the risk of the deal. I am of the mindset that the risk of losing Kelly for the chance of Bennett turning into a player worthy of a high draft pick is worth it. I am not claiming that Bennett is better as of now and I am also not suggesting trading Sully.

I guess you missed the part about how people assess our player's ceiling vs. other guys. I can name many physically gifted players who never get better or guys who aren't as good as KO. What does that mean though? I don't even care about the proposed trade, it still rings true, you guys will take any player over our players just to say you have something new and shiny. The same people who talk about Bennett's potential would be the same ones to throw JY in as filler. Again, he's a Celt so he's a bust or nothing more than a role player. If he played for another team you guys would ship Sully off for him. Look at how much love Stauskas gets.

Look, I don't know who "you guys" is directed towards but I specifically said I wouldn't trade Sully for Bennett. I don't remember mentioning trading James Young or trading for Nik Stauskas. I also never said it had anything to do with athleticism. I am speaking about the specific situation that this thread is about. I also don't really see how it's far fetched to say that a former number one overall pick has a higher ceiling than Kelly Olynyk.

[tazzmaniac]

No way!!! Cavs blew it with that pick..should have took Noel

Yes they did.  However there is a good chance he would have been included in the Love trade.  Imagine if the TWolves had Noel in addition to all their other young talent. 

[wiley]

When you have both Sully and KO it becomes tempting to trade one of them for
more athleticism.  in this case I believe both Sully and KO are too skilled
as team players to make this trade.  They are both extremely high IQ players
who can do exactly what BS wants.  They both have faults but Sully is just plain
better than Bennett and KO is too young/inexperienced to give up in a risky trade like this.
Time will tell on this one.  Sometimes risks turn out pretty glorious.
Note:  If Bennett becomes a star the Kevin Love trade becomes pretty wildly imbalanced.

Bottom line:  At this point the 16th pick is too much to give up for Bennett.  Need sweetener.

As to ImShaq's lament,  I do wonder how LarBrd would treat Bennett, or McClemore, once they
became Celtics.  I suspect they would quickly become "our garbage".

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

People say KO can't bring a pick better than 20, they say he stinks, they would trade him for Bennett. This just proves the point I have made for a long time, our players are never good enough and even when they totally outperform someone they are still the worst player in the proposed deals in the minds of CB. Our players have ALWAYS reached their ceilings while any other player has endless uptapped potential. Then people add Sully to this trade idea? Ha, good thing I decided to laugh more instead of arguing as much as I use to.

Since I previously suggested a trade of KO for Bennett I will respond. I think that Kelly is going to be a below average to average NBA player throughout his career. We have seen his strengths and weaknesses and I am of the belief that he is not a great piece going forward. You are right, Bennett has been very bad so far in his career and Kelly has been better. This is the reason a trade like this would work. Kelly may be better now but the idea is that Bennett has far more potential. Let's not forget that he was a number 1 overall pick, whether that was the right decision or not. The point that you make about our players always reaching their potential is one of the main reasons I would make that trade. This season almost every player on our team had a career year under Stevens. He is a master at getting the most out of his players. If Stevens could get Anthony Bennett to maximize his potential he could become a very good NBA player. Again, he could never blossom and remain a bust but that is the risk of the deal. I am of the mindset that the risk of losing Kelly for the chance of Bennett turning into a player worthy of a high draft pick is worth it. I am not claiming that Bennett is better as of now and I am also not suggesting trading Sully.

I guess you missed the part about how people assess our player's ceiling vs. other guys. I can name many physically gifted players who never get better or guys who aren't as good as KO. What does that mean though? I don't even care about the proposed trade, it still rings true, you guys will take any player over our players just to say you have something new and shiny. The same people who talk about Bennett's potential would be the same ones to throw JY in as filler. Again, he's a Celt so he's a bust or nothing more than a role player. If he played for another team you guys would ship Sully off for him. Look at how much love Stauskas gets.

Look, I don't know who "you guys" is directed towards but I specifically said I wouldn't trade Sully for Bennett. I don't remember mentioning trading James Young or trading for Nik Stauskas. I also never said it had anything to do with athleticism. I am speaking about the specific situation that this thread is about. I also don't really see how it's far fetched to say that a former number one overall pick has a higher ceiling than Kelly Olynyk.

No, it isn't far fetched to say Bennett has a higher ceiling but him being picked #1 has nothing to do with it, only Cavs would have picked him that high anyway. "You guys" is plural, not totally directed at you. I didn't say Sully for Bennett, I was talking about how people would be all over JY if he didn't play for us. They would trade Sully for him and all his potential but b/c he's a Celts I see him in trades as nothing more than filler.

My first post wasn't to one person, it was about how our guys are seen vs. other players and it doesn't matter what they do on the court, they are always the lesser player. It isn't all about physical, there are a number of threads about players ceilings b/c of many other perceived better factors (age, height etc.).

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

When you have both Sully and KO it becomes tempting to trade one of them for
more athleticism.  in this case I believe both Sully and KO are too skilled
as team players to make this trade.  They are both extremely high IQ players
who can do exactly what BS wants.  They both have faults but Sully is just plain
better than Bennett and KO is too young/inexperienced to give up in a risky trade like this.
Time will tell on this one.  Sometimes risks turn out pretty glorious.
Note:  If Bennett becomes a star the Kevin Love trade becomes pretty wildly imbalanced.

Bottom line:  At this point the 16th pick is too much to give up for Bennett.  Need sweetener.

As to ImShaq's lament,  I do wonder how LarBrd would treat Bennett, or McClemore, once they
became Celtics.  I suspect they would quickly become "our garbage".

That's the point I have tried to make. Thank you.

[Jferrari401]

[/quote]No, it isn't far fetched to say Bennett has a higher ceiling but him being picked #1 has nothing to do with it, only Cavs would have picked him that high anyway. "You guys" is plural, not totally directed at you. I didn't say Sully for Bennett, I was talking about how people would be all over JY if he didn't play for us. They would trade Sully for him and all his potential but b/c he's a Celts I see him in trades as nothing more than filler.

My first post wasn't to one person, it was about how our guys are seen vs. other players and it doesn't matter what they do on the court, they are always the lesser player. It isn't all about physical, there are a number of threads about players ceilings b/c of many other perceived better factors (age, height etc.).
[/quote]

Ok, fair enough, the undervaluing of our players does happen a lot on this blog. Still I don't really see how that response gets directed at me, I have never said any of those things. I am really just talking about this specific situation and player. To me, Olynyk is not a great player going forward, and I do think that it would be worth the chance to see what bennett can do for us.

[Moranis]

No way!!! Cavs blew it with that pick..should have took Noel

Yes they did.  However there is a good chance he would have been included in the Love trade.  Imagine if the TWolves had Noel in addition to all their other young talent.

no way the Cavs would have traded Noel and Wiggins.

[LarBrd33]

When you have both Sully and KO it becomes tempting to trade one of them for
more athleticism.  in this case I believe both Sully and KO are too skilled
as team players to make this trade.  They are both extremely high IQ players
who can do exactly what BS wants.  They both have faults but Sully is just plain
better than Bennett and KO is too young/inexperienced to give up in a risky trade like this.
Time will tell on this one.  Sometimes risks turn out pretty glorious.
Note:  If Bennett becomes a star the Kevin Love trade becomes pretty wildly imbalanced.

Bottom line:  At this point the 16th pick is too much to give up for Bennett.  Need sweetener.

As to ImShaq's lament,  I do wonder how LarBrd would treat Bennett, or McClemore, once they
became Celtics.  I suspect they would quickly become "our garbage".

That's the point I have tried to make. Thank you.

Yeah, it's a weak one though.   That assumes I would be spend years arguing that Kevin Garnett was statistically one of the best players in the league and suddenly change my mind after he became a Celtic.  That certainly didn't happen.  I consistently pointed out that he was the savior of this franchise and well after everyone else had attributed our success to Rondo, I was still pointing out how KG's otherworldly defense was still the engine driving our moderate success.   

Your point assumes I'd spend years arguing that Jeff Green could be a fringe star with minutes...  and change my opinion as soon as he joined the Celtics.  That didn't happen either.  His production peaked out right about where I expected him.  I posted several times about how he had talent and despite his role in OKC, he had a future as a nice scorer on a lotto team.   That's exactly what happened.  I even speculated that Perk could be traded for him about a year prior to the trade even happening.

I can't be faulted for having a luke warm opinion of toss-in talent like Jerebko.  And fwiw, I overrated Rondo pretty dramatically.  I thought he was worth a top 10 draft pick (as evidence by my post earlier where I desperately wanted us to trade him for #6 in 2013).  In retrospect, I totally overshot his value.  He netted us a late 1st and some role players. 

Your point assumes I could never see the potential of Al Jefferson while I was declaring my skepticism of Gerald Green...  That didn't happen.  I loved Big Al and strongly believed he'd develop into a 20/10 guy.   I've also posted multiple threads here singing praises of Olynyk's production.  He's got some talent.   This thread isn't really about me saying we should trade Olynyk or Sullinger for Anthony Bennett.  It's asking if Anthony Bennett is a better gamble than #16.

I will say, If Sully played on the Rockets and Terrence JOnes played on the Celtics, I'd point out that Jones had comparable trade value to Jared Sullinger and I'd get ripped for it by Celtic fans who saw it as an insult to Jones. 

I'll also say, if you're seeing a recent trend of me being down on the Celtics talent, it speaks way more to our team's lack of talent than to my admitted pessimism.    This team hasn't always been devoid of talent.   We're in a pretty rough stretch right now.  Marcus Smart is easily our most valuable chip and while I like Smart, he's barely a starter at this point in his career.

[greenhead85]

Bennett for this year's #16 is a good one. He could be utilized as SF/PF. I would only take him though if he doesn't command a great deal of money.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

When you have both Sully and KO it becomes tempting to trade one of them for
more athleticism.  in this case I believe both Sully and KO are too skilled
as team players to make this trade.  They are both extremely high IQ players
who can do exactly what BS wants.  They both have faults but Sully is just plain
better than Bennett and KO is too young/inexperienced to give up in a risky trade like this.
Time will tell on this one.  Sometimes risks turn out pretty glorious.
Note:  If Bennett becomes a star the Kevin Love trade becomes pretty wildly imbalanced.

Bottom line:  At this point the 16th pick is too much to give up for Bennett.  Need sweetener.

As to ImShaq's lament,  I do wonder how LarBrd would treat Bennett, or McClemore, once they
became Celtics.  I suspect they would quickly become "our garbage".

That's the point I have tried to make. Thank you.

Yeah, it's a weak one though.   That assumes I would be spend years arguing that Kevin Garnett was statistically one of the best players in the league and suddenly change my mind after he became a Celtic.  That certainly didn't happen.  I consistently pointed out that he was the savior of this franchise and well after everyone else had attributed our success to Rondo, I was still pointing out how KG's otherworldly defense was still the engine driving our moderate success.   

Your point assumes I'd spend years arguing that Jeff Green could be a fringe star with minutes...  and change my opinion as soon as he joined the Celtics.  That didn't happen either.  His production peaked out right about where I expected him.  I posted several times about how he had talent and despite his role in OKC, he had a future as a nice scorer on a lotto team.   That's exactly what happened.  I even speculated that Perk could be traded for him about a year prior to the trade even happening.

I can't be faulted for having a luke warm opinion of toss-in talent like Jerebko.  And fwiw, I overrated Rondo pretty dramatically.  I thought he was worth a top 10 draft pick (as evidence by my post earlier where I desperately wanted us to trade him for #6 in 2013).  In retrospect, I totally overshot his value.  He netted us a late 1st and some role players. 

Your point assumes I could never see the potential of Al Jefferson while I was declaring my skepticism of Gerald Green...  That didn't happen.  I loved Big Al and strongly believed he'd develop into a 20/10 guy.   I've also posted multiple threads here singing praises of Olynyk's production.  He's got some talent.   This thread isn't really about me saying we should trade Olynyk or Sullinger for Anthony Bennett.  It's asking if Anthony Bennett is a better gamble than #16.

I will say, If Sully played on the Rockets and Terrence JOnes played on the Celtics, I'd point out that Jones had comparable trade value to Jared Sullinger and I'd get ripped for it by Celtic fans who saw it as an insult to Jones. 

I'll also say, if you're seeing a recent trend of me being down on the Celtics talent, it speaks way more to our team's lack of talent than to my admitted pessimism.    This team hasn't always been devoid of talent.   We're in a pretty stretch right now.  Marcus Smart is easily our most valuable chip and while I like Smart, he's barely a starter at this point in his career.

No, you missed the point, if KG was always a Celts from day 1 no one would say he was bad. If Sully was on another team putting up the numbers he does, in the minutes he gets, people would be all over us getting him instead of people saying he has to go. If Bennett was a Celts playing the way he has, you can't tell me you wouldn't be calling him a terrible player. Just look at how you value players who already perform better than he does. Don't try and use players who were already good, we are talking about players like KO, Bennett (potential), Ben Mac etc.

I don't know how this is in dispute, you don't like our guys who have proven they are better than Bennett (leave potential out of it), if he was picked by us you would have been making threads on how we should trade him off. No way you would be talking potential. Oh, let's not forget how much he has been injured, I can just imagine the threads that would be up about that!

[konkmv]

Never

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Never

Why not? I wouldn't trade it for him now b.c I think we need a different type of player. Under different circumstances I would probably trade it for him bc I think Cavs gave up on him during his first season, much too early. I think (hope) he will be better than he has been. 16th pick isn't all that, lots of players picked then never amount to much if anything.

[LilRip]

I don't really know who's available at #16, but in theory, I'd do it. Despite having Sully/KO, this team lacks so much talent anyway that it's good to just have talent/potential overall. He might not have been worthy of being a #1 pick, but I think people need to get that notion out of their heads because he doesn't have a price tag of a #1 overall pick.

[LarBrd33]

When you have both Sully and KO it becomes tempting to trade one of them for
more athleticism.  in this case I believe both Sully and KO are too skilled
as team players to make this trade.  They are both extremely high IQ players
who can do exactly what BS wants.  They both have faults but Sully is just plain
better than Bennett and KO is too young/inexperienced to give up in a risky trade like this.
Time will tell on this one.  Sometimes risks turn out pretty glorious.
Note:  If Bennett becomes a star the Kevin Love trade becomes pretty wildly imbalanced.

Bottom line:  At this point the 16th pick is too much to give up for Bennett.  Need sweetener.

As to ImShaq's lament,  I do wonder how LarBrd would treat Bennett, or McClemore, once they
became Celtics.  I suspect they would quickly become "our garbage".

That's the point I have tried to make. Thank you.

Yeah, it's a weak one though.   That assumes I would be spend years arguing that Kevin Garnett was statistically one of the best players in the league and suddenly change my mind after he became a Celtic.  That certainly didn't happen.  I consistently pointed out that he was the savior of this franchise and well after everyone else had attributed our success to Rondo, I was still pointing out how KG's otherworldly defense was still the engine driving our moderate success.   

Your point assumes I'd spend years arguing that Jeff Green could be a fringe star with minutes...  and change my opinion as soon as he joined the Celtics.  That didn't happen either.  His production peaked out right about where I expected him.  I posted several times about how he had talent and despite his role in OKC, he had a future as a nice scorer on a lotto team.   That's exactly what happened.  I even speculated that Perk could be traded for him about a year prior to the trade even happening.

I can't be faulted for having a luke warm opinion of toss-in talent like Jerebko.  And fwiw, I overrated Rondo pretty dramatically.  I thought he was worth a top 10 draft pick (as evidence by my post earlier where I desperately wanted us to trade him for #6 in 2013).  In retrospect, I totally overshot his value.  He netted us a late 1st and some role players. 

Your point assumes I could never see the potential of Al Jefferson while I was declaring my skepticism of Gerald Green...  That didn't happen.  I loved Big Al and strongly believed he'd develop into a 20/10 guy.   I've also posted multiple threads here singing praises of Olynyk's production.  He's got some talent.   This thread isn't really about me saying we should trade Olynyk or Sullinger for Anthony Bennett.  It's asking if Anthony Bennett is a better gamble than #16.

I will say, If Sully played on the Rockets and Terrence JOnes played on the Celtics, I'd point out that Jones had comparable trade value to Jared Sullinger and I'd get ripped for it by Celtic fans who saw it as an insult to Jones. 

I'll also say, if you're seeing a recent trend of me being down on the Celtics talent, it speaks way more to our team's lack of talent than to my admitted pessimism.    This team hasn't always been devoid of talent.   We're in a pretty stretch right now.  Marcus Smart is easily our most valuable chip and while I like Smart, he's barely a starter at this point in his career.

No, you missed the point, if KG was always a Celts from day 1 no one would say he was bad. If Sully was on another team putting up the numbers he does, in the minutes he gets, people would be all over us getting him instead of people saying he has to go. If Bennett was a Celts playing the way he has, you can't tell me you wouldn't be calling him a terrible player. Just look at how you value players who already perform better than he does. Don't try and use players who were already good, we are talking about players like KO, Bennett (potential), Ben Mac etc.

I don't know how this is in dispute, you don't like our guys who have proven they are better than Bennett (leave potential out of it), if he was picked by us you would have been making threads on how we should trade him off. No way you would be talking potential. Oh, let's not forget how much he has been injured, I can just imagine the threads that would be up about that!

Part of that is expectations of players taken 1-6 vs guys taken 12-25.    If a guy picked #17 is putting up underwhelming numbers, it is what it is.   If a guy taken 1-6 is putting up underwhelming numbers... sometimes you need to give them benefit of the doubt.  Some players are drafted based on potential.  It's why Marcus Smart is easily the best asset on our roster despite a pretty ho-hum rookie campaign that had him selected 2nd team All-Rookie behind Jordan Clarkson.  You gotta hope that Smart will develop into something. 

[Celtics4ever]

So when do you pronounce him a bust?  Five years?    Guys still wanted Darko to do well but guess what he never did.    We drafted Michael Smith and they knew right away that he was a dud.  13th pick, Red stated I hope he plays like Larry and he was a short armed bad pick.  It only took them two seasons to waive him.    Bennett has had two seasons.

Sometimes a team reaches for a guy that is not that good.  Anyone recall Mandarich in football?   Brian Bosworth?   Sam Bowie was hurt.  Darko was a reach and never played to level of pick he was picked.  Adam Morrison anyone?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1657535-15-biggest-nba-draft-busts-of-all-time

Bennett may make this list some day.

This article had him as the fourth worst bust ever.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1900463-ranking-anthony-bennett-among-biggest-nba-draft-busts-over-last-20-years

The jury is still out.   I definitely do not think he is worth the risk.  I would rather roll the dice on 16.